Pre-boil Volume

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Crusty
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Pre-boil Volume

Post by Crusty » Mon Feb 17, 2020 4:50 am

Hi guys.
Just to clarify, if I am doing a sparge, in BTP, is my pre-boil volume the kettle volume 26.96L @100degC or is it 25.94L in my schedule tab that's in vessel column.
Batch is,
23L
Boil off, 3L/h
Trub loss, 3L
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Re: Pre-boil Volume

Post by jeff » Mon Feb 17, 2020 9:42 am

Hi, Crusty!

Are you referring to the temperature of the collected volume displayed in the editor window and the collected column in the schedule list?
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Re: Pre-boil Volume

Post by Crusty » Mon Feb 17, 2020 9:46 pm

Thanks Jeff.
I'm trying to work out which kettle volume is my pre-boil after sparge if I do one.
On the main page, you have the columns

Kettle volume@100degC 26.96L Boil duration 1hr
Water added @20degC 0.0L Evap/Hour @100degC 3.0L
Final volume @20degC 23.0L

Or when I open the schedule page, I see 25.94L in the collected column & in the In vessel column.
So is my pre-boil 26.96L or 25.94L?

This recipe is a 23.0L batch, my volume adjustment is set to negative 3.0L (trub/kettle loss) giving me a net volume of 20L which I assume is my target volume into my fermenter & my evap/Hour is set to 3.0L (boil off)
This recipe is also a full volume mash, brew in a bag with no sparge which is telling me I need 30.86L total water.
When setting up a schedule, I treat it like a sparge schedule & add mash in volume, I aim for 3.5L/Kg grain
Sacc rest @desired temp
Mash out @desired temp
Then I actually add a sparge & lock total runoff section or lock to kettle volume giving me that 25.94L figure. If I did the sparge, Mash in with 18.0L then sparge with 12.84L giving me 30.84L or 30.86L @100degC.
As it's a no sparge brew, I'm adding all my water, 30.84L for the mash in which is sparge inclusive.
I'm assuming it's 25.94L which is my run off after sparge & once @100degC, that volume is now 26.96L.

Cheers.
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Re: Pre-boil Volume

Post by jeff » Sat Feb 29, 2020 8:31 am

I guess I should look at the actual recipe. One question I have is: are you using the kettle volume lock in your sparge settings? This helps overcome the volume differences caused by runoff and boiling temperatures. If you want to send me the recipe please use my email address in my profile.
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Re: Pre-boil Volume

Post by Crusty » Mon Mar 02, 2020 9:25 pm

Hi Jeff.
I have saved the recipe to a folder on my computer but cannot seem to work out how to send it to you via your profile contact. Do you have a personal email I can send it to.
cheers,
Brian
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Re: Pre-boil Volume

Post by jeff » Tue Mar 03, 2020 8:23 am

Sorry, I wasn't sure if you'd be able to find that in my profile. Since I want to avoid putting my email address here, perhaps you can open a ticket and attach your file here: https://www.beertools.com/support/
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Re: Pre-boil Volume

Post by Crusty » Wed Mar 04, 2020 1:11 am

Thanks Jeff.
I have created a ticket with an attached file.
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Re: Pre-boil Volume

Post by jeff » Wed Mar 04, 2020 9:17 am

Thanks for the file, that helps.
Kettle volume@100degC 26.96L Boil duration 1hr
Water added @20degC 0.0L Evap/Hour @100degC 3.0L
Final volume @20degC 23.0L

Or when I open the schedule page, I see 25.94L in the collected column & in the In vessel column.
So is my pre-boil 26.96L or 25.94L?
I can't see the 25.94L in either the collected or in vessel columns. Here's what I see when I open the recipe:

Screen Shot 2020-03-04 at 9.15.31 AM.png
Screen Shot 2020-03-04 at 9.15.31 AM.png (212.13 KiB) Viewed 2386 times

Is this different from when you view the recipe?
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Re: Pre-boil Volume

Post by Crusty » Wed Mar 04, 2020 10:56 pm

Sorry Jeff, I sent you the wrong file but this one will do anyway.
In the collected column is 26.53L. This will be Kettle volume @100degC 26.96L.
My preboil I assume is 26.53L after my sparge or the same without the sparge.
I think I'm working it out now.
If I was to do a full volume mash, no sparge, I would add 31.38L total water to my vessel, mash as required, pull out bag if doing brew in a bag & I should end up with 26.53L preboil.
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Re: Pre-boil Volume

Post by jeff » Thu Mar 05, 2020 6:44 am

I believe so. Of course, that's an estimate :wink: Keep me posted on how close you come to your target.

Even though this is a different recipe than you discussed earlier, it caused me to recall something else that could influence a discrepancy between our results. Under the calculations tab of the preferences window there are two values that are used to estimate how much volume is occupied by and how much water is retained by the grain husks in the mash. If our settings differ our schedule estimates will also. Mine are set to 0.75 L/kg and 1.0 L/kg respectively.
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Re: Pre-boil Volume

Post by Crusty » Thu Mar 05, 2020 7:14 am

Thanks Jeff.
I forgot to mention those preference settings.
For brew in a bag, mine are set to 0.75L/Kg & 0.96L/Kg respectively. ( Recipe file I sent to you )
For traditional 3V brewing, it is the same as you, 0.75L/Kg & 1.0L/KG.
I'll post my results back here when I do a brew in a bag, full volume mash & no sparge.
Cheers.
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Re: Pre-boil Volume

Post by jeff » Thu Mar 05, 2020 7:19 am

Ah, ok. That changed total water to 31.16 L instead of 31.38 L. Not a huge difference, but a difference nonetheless :D
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Re: Pre-boil Volume

Post by Crusty » Fri Mar 06, 2020 7:38 am

Thanks Jeff.
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Re: Pre-boil Volume

Post by Crusty » Sun Mar 29, 2020 5:43 am

I finally managed to get a brew done yesterday, a St. Louis Lager. It was my first time brewing with the urn for over 18 months so I was expecting some dramas along the way. I ended up with 2L too much pre-boil so I changed my grain absorption rate from 0.96 to 0.60, this should get me pretty close to pre-boil volume next brew day. Using the Hochkurz method for this brew got me better than expected efficiency as well. Aiming for approximately 29L @1.034 pre-boil, I actually got 31L @1.037 so efficiency was actually 77% & not 72% as I had it set. I've fixed this for next brew as well. My final volumes were 25L in the kettle @1.049, I was aiming for 23L @1.041 so I've ended up with a 4.8% Lager this time. All in all, the brew day was awesome & with a couple of minor changes for next time, I should get pretty much bang on with my numbers.
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Re: Pre-boil Volume

Post by jeff » Tue Apr 07, 2020 9:00 am

Thanks for the update, Crusty! Hopefully your adjustments get you dialed in for some sharper predictions. Enjoy :D
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