What do you want to see in an inventory feature?

Suggestions and discussion about upcoming features in future BeerTools Pro releases.
just-cj
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Re: Hops Stored Correctly??

Post by just-cj » Thu Feb 01, 2007 4:20 pm

bzwrxbz wrote:
stevie.o wrote: I noticed that the STRORAGE Option is always - POOR.

I was wondering if that could be a Preference?
I always Buy my ingredients JUST before I brew.
This is not something you would change. I think it means "Storage Stability", which is a function of the hop variety. When i clicked on Centennial, it says "good", when i clicked on EKG, it said "poor". This is correct.

cheers!
You're right -- each hop has its own storageability factor, from pooer to excellent. If you go to Hop Union's website or Yakima Chief's website and check out the hop profiles, all of them have that data. It's determined by how much alpha acids remain after 6 months storage at 20C (just the standard measure).

I always thought Centennial was not good however -- Yakima Chief reports, "Storability is fair" and Hop Union says, "Storageability -- 60

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Re: Hops Stored Correctly??

Post by bzwrxbz » Thu Feb 01, 2007 4:30 pm

just-cj wrote:
bzwrxbz wrote:
stevie.o wrote: I noticed that the STRORAGE Option is always - POOR.

I was wondering if that could be a Preference?
I always Buy my ingredients JUST before I brew.
This is not something you would change. I think it means "Storage Stability", which is a function of the hop variety. When i clicked on Centennial, it says "good", when i clicked on EKG, it said "poor". This is correct.

cheers!
You're right -- each hop has its own storageability factor, from pooer to excellent. If you go to Hop Union's website or Yakima Chief's website and check out the hop profiles, all of them have that data. It's determined by how much alpha acids remain after 6 months storage at 20C (just the standard measure).

I always thought Centennial was not good however -- Yakima Chief reports, "Storability is fair" and Hop Union says, "Storageability -- 60
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just-cj
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Re: Hops Stored Correctly??

Post by just-cj » Thu Feb 01, 2007 5:24 pm

bzwrxbz wrote:Well "Good" "Fair" "Poor" "Excellent" etc are subjective. Maybe numbers are a better idea... but then again, I am sure different people get different numbers as well.

I got my info from "Radical Brewing by Mosher".
Sure, you're absolutely right on the subjectivity of the terms. But, the movers and shakers in the industry have standardized testing procedures which is to measure the remaining alpha acids after six months of storage at 20C. I am pretty sure that Mosher didn't do his own testing, and I wouldn't be surprised to find out that the report that Centennial's storageability is "good" is a typo/mistake.

But, this is all just splitting hairs. It is a fact that even perfectly properly stored hops will lose their alpha acids (and by extension other essential oils as well) gradually, but at different rates -- and pellets and plugs and whole hops adds another factor to the mix. Don't just trust that your local shop or online supplier stores their hops well -- ask them for details: what crop year, when they were obtained, how they've been stored since they got to the shop, how they package them (if they pack their own), etc. If possible, smell and look at the hops before you buy them -- if they smell cheesy or stale and look brown (some hops will have a yellowish color to them, which may be okay for that variety), don't buy them! Check out Yakima Chief and Hop Union and Freshops and any other hop source you can find -- using fresh ingredients is always important, but it's essential with hops.

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Re: Hops Stored Correctly??

Post by billvelek » Thu Feb 01, 2007 8:49 pm

[quote="just-cj"]Snip ... I always thought Centennial was not good however ... Hop Union says, "Storageability -- 60
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Post by soyousee » Fri Feb 02, 2007 10:50 am

I would just like the enter amounts to be type in instead of the amount arrows and what value selection, just simpler to do.

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Post by slothrob » Fri Feb 02, 2007 3:21 pm

Does your version not allow you to type the amounts in, or do you not want to have the option of using the arrows?
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billvelek
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I can type in the values ...

Post by billvelek » Fri Feb 02, 2007 3:55 pm

soyousee wrote:I would just like the enter amounts to be type in instead of the amount arrows and what value selection, just simpler to do.
What fields are you speaking about? Every field that I've ever used with arrows, I've also been able to type in the values. I have to put my cursor on the field first, and then either use the delete key or double-click on the value to highlight it and then start typing. I've never had any problems with that. What operating system are you using?

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Post by slothrob » Fri Feb 02, 2007 5:34 pm

You can also, on the Mac at least, get to the box with the "Tab" key.
Highlight the grain, hit the Tab key, and the text in the amount box is highlighted and ready to be typed over.
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Post by ColoradoBrewer » Fri Feb 02, 2007 5:41 pm

slothrob wrote:You can also, on the Mac at least, get to the box with the "Tab" key.
Highlight the grain, hit the Tab key, and the text in the amount box is highlighted and ready to be typed over.
Just tried it, and it works in Windows XP as well.

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Re: Hops Stored Correctly??

Post by just-cj » Fri Feb 02, 2007 10:09 pm

billvelek wrote:Just out of curiosity, what has happened to the 'lost' alpha acids? In a nitrogen flushed packet, there shouldn't be any oxidation, and in a mylar packet there shouldn't be any evaporation. Do the alpha acids "decompose" into something else, or combine with other compounds??
Bill, you're right to the degree that with proper storage, the degradation of alpha acids is slowed. Three factors are most important: heat, light, and air. Eliminate heat (ie, freeze your hops), and you'll be in much better shape. Store them in the dark, and you'll be a little more better off. And eliminate oxygen, and you even better yet.

I know I've read what happens to the alpha acids -- they oxidize, breakdown, or something like that -- but I can't find any source right now. If/When I dig it up, I'll let you all know.

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AA identification idea

Post by notbob » Sat May 05, 2007 4:40 pm

I hope I didn't read this thread too fast.

As far as the database Alpha Acid values are concerned, why not just add the industry average value to a set of parenthesis, next to the name. And, be permanent, as a part of the name itself.

For example, even if you want to edit your hops, and change the AA value, or even create 3 different files for the same type hop, you could have the name followed by the average, in parenthesis... Amarillo(8%)

That way it would always be a permanent reference to the industry average value. Kind of like a benchmark. Then, you would only have to edit the permanent database once, and add the values to the name itself. Then the user could accept this value, or add his own.

Do this make sense, or have I had too little sleep (I know this part is true..)?

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billvelek
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Re AA% values

Post by billvelek » Mon May 07, 2007 4:07 pm

I'm think I'm following what you mean, notbob, and if so I have to disagree with your suggestion -- as BTP is currently set up. I can't see the point and think it would become confusing for folks, but maybe I'm missing something here.

First of all, I am presuming that the values that BTP already has entered into the hops database are, in fact, some sort of an industry average, or at least a close approximation of what can be expected -- although I will add that I have purchased hops that have had values that were substantially different. Your idea of being able to see the AA% values right next to the name can be accomplished by using the cursor to drag and reduce the size of the "supplier" column down to nothing and move the "alpha" column closer to the names by reducing the width of the "name" column. SUGGESTION FOR JEFF: it would be nicer if the entire columns could just be moved around to suit the user, but that might require more programming effort than it's really worth. I just minimize the supplier column because I don't need it, and can display it later if I ever do. Regarding the "inventory" feature, which this thread is about, there should be a "date of purchase" column for the hops, which I'm sure has already been discussed.

Second -- getting back to notbob's suggestion -- if the AA% values were displayed as part of the name field, then it would appear on the recipe ingredient list where an AA% is already listed. If there were two values -- one that is the "industry standard" and one that is the "actual value" I think that might be confusing and can't see how it would serve any necessary purpose. When you add hops and then edit that addition from the recipe page (instead of editing the database itself), that will change the AA% for just that recipe -- which is all you really want. If a user would find it useful to have two values listed, then the user could select that hop TWICE from the browser, then edit only one of them from the ingredients page to reflect the actual AA%. The duplicate could be there for reference only, and will not affect the recipe if a quantity and boil time is not entered.

I hope you are not offended by my post; none was meant.

Cheers.

Bill Velek
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