Batch Sparging Example - Beta 1.5.11

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Batch Sparging Example - Beta 1.5.11

Post by camelfilter » Mon Aug 25, 2008 2:33 am

Does anyone have an example of a typical two-step batch sparging schedule to show me,... and everyone for that matter. I've tried making the 'Batch' schedule work for me, but am unable to.

Here's what I'd consider a typical Batch Sparge for an ? gallon batch

1) Infusion of 1/2 total kettle volume @ ?F temp in order to hit 154F for rest. (I usually figure out what this volume means in terms of thickness i.e. 1.0qts/lb ~ 1.4qts/lb and if it falls in this generally I don't sweat it)

2) rest 30-60 minutes

3) Infusion of near boiling water, volume of which is determined by amount of grist absorbtion in mash

3) Vorlauf and 1st Runnings

4) Infusion of 1/2 total kettle volume @ ?F temp in order to hit 170F

5) Vorlauf 2nd Runnings

Tah Dah! It's pretty simple math and works really well, but I'll be !@#$ if I can figure out how to do it BTPro's batch scheduler!!

The temps don't seem to be at all right in the batch sparge window. I'd read that they reflect the temp of the wort in the collection vessel,...? If so,... Why? What do I care about the temp in my collection vessel? I can see where it 'might' be useful in helping to determine the time to reach boiling, but who cares? That equasion has soooo many variables in it like environmental temp, BTU's of heat source, Time taken to piss and make a phone call,...etc. Plus, the collection vessel temp doesn't matter - find ONE brewing recipe that states a collection vessel temp? They don't 'cause it just doesn't matter.

What REALLY matters is calculating the strike temps based on the amount of grist and the infusion temps based on the volume of grist/temp

I'd like to see BTPro have a 'no-brainer' batch sparge built in based on the above example. It (BTPro) should take your Kettle Volume and chop it in 1/2, then figure out the strike temp based on that 1/2 volume and amount of grist and grist temp to hit a target rest temp (say 154F), (or allow you to set up a target 'qts/lb' and figure the strike temp, and the remaing two infusions i.e. after 60 minute rest, the 2nd-infusion is based on amount of grist absorption and desired mashout temp (170F), and 3rd infusion based on the (Kettle Volume)-((1st Infusion)+(2nd Infusion))=3rd Infusion.) Then after a 60 minute rest, it should figure out an infusion at ?F temp based an the amount of grist absorption that will get it to ~ 170F. Then vorlauf, 1st Runnings, then infusion of the remaining 1/2 Kettle Volume, vorlauf, and 2nd Runnings,...done!

While I can see it would be tricky to get 'spot-on' with the temps after the 1st runnings, it isn't really critical that you be spot on at that point with this infusion temp. 170F +/-5 isn't going to kill anything,... we're more interested in stopping conversion and more importantly rinsing the grain bed and getting our final Kettle Volume.

90% of the batch spargers I know pretty much follow this math as it's very simple and works really well. While I can see that BTPro's sparge scheduler is meant to be highly tweakable, it really doesn't have to be. What I don't like is the Batch Sparge window is still treating the initial infusion as a separate step, when in reality, it's an integral part of the whole batch sparge process. Most Batch spargers will agree that the idea is to get equal amounts from each of your runnings in order to get the best efficiency. I'm sure there are many who will argue this point, but regardless of the science, it is a very predictable and simple method of mashing/sparging and seems to work very well,... at least for me and everyone I know,... The initial infusion volume/temp is critical in determining the remaining infusion's temp/volume, but the current batch sparge window doesn't seem account for it.

Make it all one thing! Just a thought :)

Oh,... and if I'm just too stupid to figure it out, and there are plenty of good examples of batch sparge schedules using V1.5.?... then never mind :) Thanks!

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Post by wactuary » Sun Aug 31, 2008 9:16 pm

Attached is the Saison recipe that I plan on brewing tomorrow. It pretty closely matches the batch sparge schedule you were thinking about. I hope this helps.

Download this link as file and import it... Saison Recipe

Is there a better way to share recipes?
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Batch Sparge example

Post by slothrob » Mon Sep 01, 2008 9:08 am

You can also find a brief explanation of the batch sparge (separation) set-up in the BeerToolsPro wiki. There's also a downloadable example file posted there. I've never tried it, but it looks like you might be able to upload files to there, as well.
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Re: Batch Sparging Example - Beta 1.5.11

Post by Bobby_M » Wed Sep 03, 2008 12:31 pm

Ryan, while I agree with a few of your points I think you're making a huge assumption that all batch spargers think like you and use your exact process. I sure don't.

Yes, I will wholeheartedly agree that the resultant temperature after any sparge infusion should absolutely tell you what the equilized GRIST TEMP is and not the new temp of the wort in the collection vessel (further, this should be on the printout though it is NOT). The word is that you can get this to happen by selecting "none" in the collection vessel dropdown (but still not on the printout). I'm OK with that.

When you change the infusion temp in the batch sparge window, you have to hit OK and look in the main schedule window to see if you reached your goal temp and if not, go back in and tweak. I agree that this is annoying.

However, I don't and also don't know anyone that uses "half kettle volume" as a strike volume. It's usually based on mash thickness that is decided ahead of time based on desired fermentability, anticipation of step infusions, and/or even to increase efficiency. Assuming that everyone would like it to default to one value or another is flawed. All you have to do to make a preset for yourself is to set up the schedule once and make it a template.

What you want is:

Mash In - set the rate of infusion you like (1.25qt/lb is what I use)
Sac Rest
Batch Sparge (set the first infusion volume to whatever you think you'll lose to absorption and set the temp to 200F and hit the plus sign to add the infusion/second runnings. If you hit the "lock" it will make that volume appropriate based on the main screen's volume needs).

I don't use mash out infusions and I further use two discrete batch sparge infusions so I hit the "+" in the batch sparge window twice. As you can see, there's no one size fits all.

You could also do a workaround where you use a discrete infusion step which you can label "mash out" prior to the batch sparge step. It allows you to enter a desired equilized temp and it will tell you which volume it would take based on infusion temp (and vice versa). If you do this, you'd leave the the first infusion volume of the batch sparge window ZERO and hit the plus sign to add the last batch infusion.

I understand the frustration when you think you run a process that 90% of the world does but I'd rather them er on the side of flexibility since you can build what you're looking for, and so can I.
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