Wyeast 1007

What went wrong? Was this supposed to happen? Should I throw it out? What do I do now?

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Wyeast 1007

Postby Freon12 » Sat Jan 26, 2002 9:19 am

I have a concern about the ALT I am making. The fermentation lasted three days and then completely stopped, I mean nothing is happening.
I used a 1 liter starter that looked really good.
The airlock started moving within 6 hrs and the Kraeusen was about 1.5" day two. Day 3 dead. Day 5 I decided to move to the secondary maybe to rouse it up a bit and saw what looked like oil on the surface. If I agitate it will foam and then nothing. The gravty is still too high at 1.030 and my taget is 1.014-1.008. Andytv got me thinking about Moverian malt, so I used it as 30% of the grain bill, Munich was 23%, and crytal was 35%, with 11% Cara-pils. Is it possible that I was shipped Movarian malt labeled well-Modified and it could actully be Under Mod.? At 90 minute mash I did not check for conversion. Any thoughts?
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Dunno

Postby andytv » Sun Jan 27, 2002 6:03 pm

My reference books don't say anything about 1007 that indicates a short life cycle. I did however read that it prefers 55-66F. Hard to say, the fact that you had a good krausen makes me think that the yeast worked fine. If you wind up calling your malt supplier, let me know whats up. I have just about given up on the Moravian Malt. The stuff I have access to is the exact same as that used by Latrobe Brewing. I know a driver for RR that says he sweeps 50lb out of his truck every day. Too bad I can't use it.
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"Moravian" the Seed vs. Moravian Malt

Postby Mesa Maltworks » Mon Jan 28, 2002 7:41 pm

I responded to another instance of the Moravian question in another thread on this forum tonite, but I wanted to point out that if you got the "Moravian" malt from anyone other than St. Pats Brewing Supply in Texas, the malt is actually a Cargill produced malt from a SEED VARIETY trademarked by Coors with the name Moravian and shares absolutely no functional or flavor characteristics with Moravian malt that is derived from Hana barley from the Czech Republic. Try a Czechvar/Budvar and (you'll have to concentrate hard for this to get around the corn, rice and additionally in Rolling Rock's case, DMS) compare it to a Coors or Rolling Rock and you will see that there is NO flavor similarity what so ever. I'm not talking about the whole beer here, just the malt flavor contribution. The availability of this malt beyond the Coors plant has led to much confusion among homebrewers and the industry as well. It is simply one of those liberties that domestic trademarking allows in the US and is unfortunately misleading.

If you question this, ask Lynne O'Connor who souces this malt for St. Pats. Here is an excerpt from their site detailing their offering:

"The 'moravian' barley grown in America by Coors (actually Cargill produced) is merely a seed name and is at best a distant relative of seed taken from Moravian barley. Most malting barleys grown in continental Europe are genetic descendants of Moravian seed. Just as with grapes, it is not only the seed but the agricultural conditions (soil, climate) of Moravia that distinguishes the fine barley. You may also see a "German Moravian malt". This is as silly as Texas Napa wine or Ohio Bordeaux." Refer to http://www.stpats.com/grain.htm#budvarmalt for more details. By the way, they also offer extract made from the Budvar malt that produces excellent results and even produces the appropriate color values unlike most extracts.
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Infusion vs. Budvar

Postby Freon12 » Mon Feb 04, 2002 3:48 pm

What would be, if any, the differance in handling, mashing and converting this malt as compared to the standard 2 row pale malt? More enzymes?
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Which "Moravian" are you asking about ?...

Postby Mesa Maltworks » Mon Feb 04, 2002 7:32 pm

Based on the malt you want to use, here are the answers:

1) What Budvar uses... UNDERMODIFIED Moravian Malt:

This malt REQUIRES a decoction regimen to fully saccrify it's starches. If this is the one you want to use, post back and I'll detail how Budvar mashes. I didn't want to post it if this is not what you wanted because the technique is lengthy !

2) Moravian Fully Modified Malt....

This is a two-row Hana barley that has been malted to full modification which allows it to be used in step/infustion mashing. It saccrifies just like regular two row malts and it's distatic power (enzymes) is similar as well. The only thing about using this product is that it does not give as accurate a color as the under-mod. variety and has a higher Kolbach rating (protein content), but these are definite, but not giant differences, that may not be of concern as it's use results in an incredible pils or dark Czech lager that is still superior to using any other malts for these styles in my opinion.

3) "Moravian the Seed Variety" malt (Coors/Cargill)...

This is simply another two row malt that bears little resemblance to the malt of Hana orgin. It saccrifies like any other 2 row malt. It produces a very light malt flavor profile that, in my opinion, lacks any special characteristics that would make me choose to use it over any other available pils malt. I'm not saying there is anything wrong with it, it is just non-descript.

I am not certain if the latter malt is available to homebrewers for purchase. Contact either your local homebrew supplier or give Cargill a call. I looked at Cargill's website (www.cargillmalt.com) and they don't list all of their products. I also am unsure how long it has been available on the open market as it once was a Coors proprietary product produced by them but has since showed up at other macrobreweries. There may be characteristics about this malt that are special to these brewers. The reason I state this is because traditionally they only used six-row malts due to lessened expense and compatability with their cereal (rice/corn/other) mashes. You may also want to post a question to Coors related to this topic although they may not want to reply to questions regarding their formulations and techniques.

By the way... Cargill makes some incredible malts which you may want to try. I make extensive use of their products that are produced at the former Schrier Maltings which they bought.

As an aside...Schrier used to be the importer for De-Wulf Cosyns (Belgium) which I really loved and bought a ton of, but Interbrew bought De-Wulf and subsequently shut them down in what I view as a supply channel squeeze on competing Belgian brewers. I have since started using Dingemann's (also Belgian) which has proven to be a good substitute.
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2 row Hana

Postby Freon12 » Tue Feb 05, 2002 2:19 pm

I understand the malt I am working with is the 2 row Hana well modified.(St.Pats) I wanted to blame the malt for some flaws in the beer. I have noticed a chill haze and a faint but sharp doughy after taste in the german lager even after cold filtering at 5 micron. I thought a step mash would change this and tried a Danish lager stepped with an acid rest(122f@30min). This improved the chill haze problem, but I can still pick out this same taste of dough in both beers, although in the Danish it takes some effort to pick it out. It took over 120min for conversion at the final 154f. A German 2 row malt substitution makes the flaw go away in the German lager using the same brewing equipment with single step 154f at 60min. No haze, no dough, wonderful beer. I made sure not to change anything else,including wearing the same pocket protector that day, but you really can't be sure I guess. What could I be doing wrong?
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Sound techniques used...

Postby Mesa Maltworks » Wed Feb 06, 2002 10:40 am

Your techniques should not have yielded these results.... I have used this malt in a single infusion yielding a dough-in temperature of 149 degrees with no problem ! Maybe they sent you the under modified version ? This would DEFINITELY result in what you have describe. Call Lynne at St. Pats and ask her if this was possible. Otherwise, I'm clueless as to what is happening.
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