PBW Alternative?

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PBW Alternative?

Postby andytv » Fri Feb 21, 2003 3:01 am

I have had great results cleaning my plastic coni lately with PBW; the only problem is that it's adding almost $10 to my cost-to-brew. I'm paying about $10 per lb for the stuff. Is there a "generic" version, or an alternative chemical that produces similar results?/
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Percarbonates

Postby BillyBock » Fri Feb 21, 2003 3:57 am

Andy: PBW falls in a class of cleaners called percarbonates. Although sometimes sold as a sanitizer, One-Step is also a percarbonate. I think it does a better job of cleaning than sanitizing. I've used it with great success at the usual no-rinse concentration. I've even doubled the concentration to get grunge off or remove bottle labels. But make sure you rinse well. Additionally, I can't see any difference between One-step and Oxyclean--the active ingredients are the same. I'm giving some kegs an initial cleaning with Oxyclean right now.

v/r
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I know what they say, but:

Postby fitz » Fri Feb 21, 2003 4:38 am

I know one step states no rinse, and yadda,yadda.
If you are using it to clean a kegg, make sure you rinse well. after all one step or oxyclean cleans with what? It is an oxygen type bleach, so I would think this would be a bad thing for beer if any residue remained in the many hiding places in a keg. Had an acqauntance use oxy clean on his bottles and told me he didn't have good carbonation, that was until he woke up to the sound of little pops in his kitchen with beer running down his new cabinets and onto the new floor 3 weeks later. don't know if it was the oxclean, but it made me cautious.
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Cost Saving and Future Article on This....

Postby Mesa Maltworks » Fri Feb 21, 2003 8:32 am

The way to save money on Five Star's PBW is to buy the 4#, 8#, or even better, 50#, 5 gallon bucket. Sure it is a larger up front cost, but it yields long term savings. At Beer, Beer & More Beer, they sell the 4# at $4.98/lb. Northern Brewer offers 8# at $ 3.86/#. As far as the 50#, the two sites I referred to did not list that, but you can see how far the price goes down if you simply buy more.

I have tried other cleansers that are intended to work similarly, but they either were more hazardous than I liked to use (sodium hydroxide), were more difficult to use or were environmentally harmful (TSP for one). One characteristic that PBW's formulation produces that I have not seen in other similarly formulated products (Loeffler Lerapur 123) is enhanced rinsability. In hard water, some of the cleansers become hard to rinse completely. But I have never experienced this with PBW. I feel that it is the best cleanser available except sodium hydroxide (caustic). The reason I won't use caustic is that it is very dangerous... especially when hot. It also requires acid neutralization prior to disposal, otherwise it will screw with your local water treatment facility's efforts. PBW works almost as well, is enviro-friendly and significantly less dangerous.

There are other products that share similar formulations (Loffler is an example), but PBW is the only one that I am aware of that is packaged in homebrew user quantities.

I am currently, albeit slowly, completing a semi-comprehensive article on cleaners, sanitizers and good cleaning practices which will be posted in a section on this website.

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Postby brewmaster808 » Wed Oct 06, 2004 6:36 pm

I make a homemade PBW using red devil tsp/90 and washing soda.
http://mysite.verizon.net/res7lflt/id13.html
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Oxi-Clean Problems

Postby DreamWeaver » Wed Oct 06, 2004 7:55 pm

Just a note about using Oxi-Clean on anything in the brewery...

I am not on an anti- Oxi-Clean venture but found it not recommended by the company to use on anything dealing in the food service or cleaning in the kitchen.
-------------------------------------------

Here is a previous post of mine:

"A few weeks ago I called the Oxi-Clean folks to ask if it was OK to use Oxi-Clean for Homebrewing and explained some of the process. Basically they said YES but warned to use warm to hot water as to completely dissolve it and to rinse it very well. And reminded me not to ingest it. Explaining the sodium percarbonate and hydrogen peroxide result. I explained that J. Palmer said sodium percarbonate was in most PBW's.

Yesterday while bottling a batch I went through my normal cleaning & sanitizing routine and noticed a dried film on some of my equipment. I also had a brand new piece of siphon hose that went through the process as well. It had a film on/in it that I could not rinse off. So, I called Oxi-Clean again. This person recommended NOT using it for Homebrewing because it would leave a film that may impart an unpleasant effect. She said it would "probably" be OK, but would NOT "recommend" it and added that if I had been using it and did'nt notice an bad effects, it may be ok but suggested using lesser more diluted amounts. Then I told her of my film. She also said prolonged contact with bare hands/skin may cause a rash and redness. Oh Great! I told her of the film and aftertaste on my tongue and lips. Probably no cause for alarm but you may want to consider using less or another cleaner, she said. Oxi-Clean is meant for laundry, fabric and carpet... Works great. But not in the kitchen.

If this has you wondering, you can call Oxi-Clean (the number is on your container if you have some)at: 1.800.781.7529, press #3 when prompted. They may answer any other questons you have. I warned her that she may be getting a bunch of calls."


Laundry detergent will also leave a film and a bad taste if not completely removed. Elbow grease is needed to remove the film, but another Homebrewer left Oxi in his corny for a week or better & now it won't come out at all. I ruined a 5 gallon and a 10 gallon batch last year but drank most of it before figuring this out. Stopped using Oxi and it went away. YMMV.

Good Luck!

-DW
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TSP/90 and washing soda question ?

Postby Azorean Brewer » Mon Oct 11, 2004 8:32 pm

What ratio do you use of the TSP/90 and washing soda ? ? ? per gallon of water.

Also What is washing soda ?

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Found TSP/90 and Washing Soda

Postby Azorean Brewer » Wed Oct 13, 2004 11:57 am

OK I have found the TSP/90 (Red Devil) at my local ACE Hardware store, and I also found washing soda at my local grocery store, the TSP/90 was $7.59 for 4 lbs. and washing soda was $2.79 for 3 lbs.

I understand that it is 2 parts TSP/90 to one part washing soda, but what amount per 5 gallons of water, I generally use 2 tablespoons PBW for 5 gallons is this a good starting point for the PBW clone ?

Thanks,

Paul.
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glass only

Postby Sapper » Wed Nov 03, 2004 10:59 pm

OxyClean works well for me in glass carboys, but I fear to use it on plastic.

I let the carboy set overnight with the one scoop/carboy inside. Then I rinse thoroughly. Lastly I fill with iodophor solution. This is how I store them.

I have read that iodophor is a no rinse sanitizer, but since I store my carboys full of them, I always rinse.
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Re: Found TSP/90 and Washing Soda

Postby brewmaster808 » Sat Feb 12, 2005 9:10 am

Azorean Brewer wrote:OK I have found the TSP/90 (Red Devil) at my local ACE Hardware store, and I also found washing soda at my local grocery store, the TSP/90 was $7.59 for 4 lbs. and washing soda was $2.79 for 3 lbs.

I understand that it is 2 parts TSP/90 to one part washing soda, but what amount per 5 gallons of water, I generally use 2 tablespoons PBW for 5 gallons is this a good starting point for the PBW clone ?

Thanks,

Paul.


Sorry for not getting back sooner, yep you got it done pat. However I imagine by now you know that.
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Try organic automatic dishwasher detergent

Postby PSU4ever » Sun Jun 05, 2011 12:21 am

I bought a scent/dye free and clear auto dishwasher powder made by Seventh Generation at my local grocer (Krogers). They list ingredients. It includes sodium percarbonate ( main ingredient in PBW), sodium carbonate (also called soda ash- brand name Arm&Hammer Washing Soda), and a few other ingredients to promote flow and rinsing. A 45oz(2.81 lbs) box cost under $5 (June 2011). I would recommend using it with hot water, rinsing, and sanitizing afterwards if needed.

I use this on my corny kegs and carboys - they are always sparkling clean and beer is without off flavor or character.
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PBW-lite

Postby slothrob » Sun Jun 05, 2011 6:56 am

Yes, dishwasher powder is very similar to PBW and works well. I also have a bulk pack of coffee pot cleaner that works well on carboys.
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