sparge

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sparge

Postby johnnynothumb » Sun Mar 16, 2008 6:35 pm

what is the optimum amount of time to pull your second running?
After ramping up the temp in my grain to 170` and resting for 15 min
I started the drain and im getting gallon every 30 min.and pulling 3-4.5 for boil
Can the flow rate increase ????
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Batch Sparge?

Postby slothrob » Mon Mar 17, 2008 11:07 am

It sounds like you doing a Batch Sparge.
In that case there is no optimum speed. The sugar should all be in solution and you are simply draining the tun. You scan drain as fast as your system will allow, but not so fast as to get a stuck sparge. Takes me about 10 minutes.

Fly Sparging is definitely rate dependent.
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Re: sparge

Postby billvelek » Tue Mar 18, 2008 12:29 pm

johnnynothumb wrote:what is the optimum amount of time to pull your second running?
After ramping up the temp in my grain to 170` and resting for 15 min
I started the drain and im getting gallon every 30 min.and pulling 3-4.5 for boil
Can the flow rate increase ????
What are you using for lautering? ... because there is no way that I could possilby tolerate a rate that slow, even if I were fly sparging. Hell, for a 5 gallon batch including boil off, you'd need almost 3 hours. Is that really typical, or did you have a 'stuck' sparge? I have a ten foot long stainless steel hose coiled in the bottom of my rectangular ice chest, and I'll bet it drains a gallon in about a minute or two. It drains like I just unplugged the ice chest to drain ice water. And it's probably almost as fast even when I use oatmeal, rye, or wheat flour without hulls. It's just awesome; I highly recommend it. Of course, you could probably get just as good results with a false bottom. As for actual design, my system is set up for batch sparging; it wouldn't work well for fly-sparging because of the inevitable channeling that would result, and my efficiency would drop through the floor. I think your first real decision is whether you want to fly sparge or batch sparge, and then get the right equipment. I like batching; it's MUCH easier, quicker, doesn't require fancy equipment for sprinkling sparge water or a properly designed manifold, and I think my efficiency probably doesn't drop more than a few percentage points..

Cheers.

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Batch Sparging

Postby slothrob » Tue Mar 18, 2008 1:59 pm

+1 Bill!

Heck, I've been averaging close to 90% efficiency batch sparging lately :shock: I think I need to dial back the mill a bit or try wetting my grain because I'm flirting with a stuck sparge. I've been lucky so far, but it's gonna bite me someday.

It hadn't occurred to me that that could be his problem, I thought he was just asking if it was OK if he drained faster. A good braid may be his answer.
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re:sparge

Postby johnnynothumb » Tue Mar 18, 2008 8:16 pm

IM IN A 10 GALLON RUBBERMAID W/ A WALL TO WALL SS PERF FALSE BOTTOM I DONT BELIEVE IT IS STUCK I CAN OPEN THE VALVE WIDE OPEN AND DROP IT IN ABOUT 10 MIN. BUT WAS LEARY OF LEAVING TO MUCH ON THE TABLE I WAS GETTING 50 -55 % efficiency IN MY LAST COUPLE OF BATCHES AND WAS TRYING TO FIGURE OUT THE BEST WAY TO RUN AND FIGURED SLOW WAS MORE SAFE.
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I don't know how fast you can rinse grains 'on the fly'

Postby billvelek » Sun Apr 13, 2008 4:01 am

When I spoke about draining my mashtun with the valve wide open, please understand that I am a BATCH sparger. What that means is that all of my sparge water is literally "dumped" into my grain bed all at once, and I stir the dickens out of it for a minute or two to mechanically rinse the sugar off of the grains so that the sugar will dissolve into the hot water. When I drain a gallon in a minute or faster, it's because the water already contains as much sugar as it's going to get at that point, and going slower isn't going to improve anything (assuming there has already been full conversion of starches). On the other hand, if you are fly sparging, you are trying to flush the sugars down through the grain bed, from top to bottom and then out the drain; I suspect that if you did this too fast, it would be _almost_ like me adding all my water at once but then never bothering to stir. So I think that _perhaps_ you can't really go wide open, but I can assure you that nobody takes an hour or more to sparge. You need to find some middle ground, and someone experienced in fly-sparging can probably give you specific advice regarding speed.

The other thing I want to mention is that the fineness of your crush will affect efficiency, too, as just suggested by slothrob. You might want to experiment with your mill a bit. The only other factor I can think of, as to why you are not getting most of the sugar, is because some of it still remains as starch; you can do an iodine test to check for full conversion, but if you are doughing-in correctly (no big clumps of grain), have at least a quart of water per pound of grain, mash at around 152F, give or take a few degrees depending upon what sort of beer you want to make, and hold that mash at that temp for 45 minutes or longer, you SHOULD have full conversion. You can mash for an hour to be sure, but any longer than that is a waste of time and the longer mash period is also changing the character of your beer.

Cheers.

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Postby beernut » Sat Nov 29, 2008 2:27 am

Enzyme conversion usually takes place in the first twenty minutes if your strike temps are right. As Bill says using some Idophor sanitizer or Iodine on a sample will show if there is any starch residue left. Crush as fine as you can without getting any stuck sparges and have a bag of rice hulls on hand to mix in with the grist if you do.
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