Partigyle technique for BTP software

Brewing processes and methods. How to brew using extract, partial or all-grain. Tips and tricks.

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Partigyle technique for BTP software

Postby billvelek » Sun Jan 20, 2008 3:49 pm

For those who are interested, this is how I use BTP for my partigyles. It is not as easy and convenient as a built in partigyle function, which I hope Jeff and Lathe can eventually incorporate into BTP within a few years , but it works for me (essentially) and is the best and only way I know how to do this; in doing it this way, I am assuming that color is in direct proportion to gravity, although I don't actually know if that is really the case. Hey, maybe my approach will give Jeff and Lathe some ideas about how to do this feature, and I will repeat what I said long ago: I think MANY brewers would do partigyles if they could more easily figure them out, and aside from the general workings of the BTP program, having such a feature in BTP would, in my opinion, be second in usefulness only to the Inventory function. This is really something that ought to be incorporated, if it possibly can be.

Anyway, last weekend I did a triple partigyle to make three 4.75 gallon batches consisting of an IPA, an ESB, and a blonde ale; I was planning an American Pale Ale instead of the blonde, but came up a little too weak in my O.G. and didn't have any DME. I make 4.75 gallon batches because I use 5 gallon carboys and I learned long ago that filling them to the very top is a waste of wort, but I digress. When doing a partigyle, you want to select beer styles that will use the same grains because you're going to be mashing them all at the same time. I suppose you could also do separate mini-mashes to make some adjustments if you want to go to the extra effort, but this is not a thread about how to do partigyles (just use google and you'll find all sorts of info).

I begin by creating what I call a Stage One recipe which doesn't contain any hops but rather is for the purpose of determining the mash schedule, and the water volumes and temperatures that I'll need. When you do this, you need to remember that because you will be doing three separate boils, that you need to change either your boil rate or your length of boil; I just multiply my usual boil-off rate by three as in doing three simultaneous boils. For my mash, I used 25 pounds of Briess 2-row pale malt and 1.5 pounds of crystal 40, and set my final volume at 14.25 gallons (3 x 4.75 gallons), and then set up my mash schedule to include a mashout and a batch sparge consisting of 1st runnings, sparge #1, and sparge #2.

BTP calculated the volume and temperatures for all water additions which have always been accurate. However, in this instance I came up short on my first runnings and was scratching my head trying to figure it out when I finally realized that I had forgotten to add my mashout water ... DUHHH (too many homebrews??). So I quickly divided the volume of mashout infusion in half and added that much to each sparge. I'm not sure what that might have done, if anything, to my overall efficiency or quality of beer, but that's not really important here.

Prior to brew day, I used BTP to create my Stage One recipe plus three different 'Stage Two' recipes for my IPA, ESB, and Pale Ale, and I used about mid-point O.G.s for each one and set my efficiency to 80% which is about what I usually get. That gave me some idea of how much grain I would need for each one and then I tallied them and used that for my grain bill for my Stage One recipe. I can't remember the exact measurements because I didn't print them out and then those recipes were later altered as I'll explain.

After mashing, I drained my extract into plastic buckets and used my refractometer to check the O.G. of each, and then I laddled back and forth -- mostly between the 1st runnings bucket (strongest) and the final sparge bucket (weakest) -- to get _close_ to what BTP said my pre-boil gravities should be for each one, by placing my cursor over the "Kettle Vol." field. I tried to keep all three buckets close to the same level of wort. When I realized that I couldn't dilute my first bucket any more even though my third bucket was still a little too weak, I changed my third recipe to the Blonde Ale. My overall efficiency came in at 82.76% at the end of my sparge, which doesn't explain why my third bucket was weak, so I must have made a math error in deciding how much grain to use or maybe I mis-weighed my grain. Whatever.

Now, for the final adjustment of each recipe, assuming that each bucket is equal in volume, you take the gravity points for each one and add them together, and then you divide that into each sample to see what proportion of the grain bill each one contains. The average of the samples is used in the Stage One recipe to see what sort of efficiency you have. The grain bill is proportionately entered for each Stage Two recipe, along with a change to the O.G. using the analysis tab. The rest -- hop schedule, yeast, etc. -- is set for each Stage Two recipe. These are the essential data I measured or calculated based on the pre-boil O.G. for each bucket as indicated:
IPA -- 1.053 = 39% of points = 9.75# 2-row and .59# of crystal 40
ESB -- 1.046 = 34% of points = 8.5# 2-row and .51# of crystal 40
Blnd -- 1.036 = 27% of points = 6.75# 2-row and .40# of crystal 40
Total - 1.135
Avg. -- 1.045 = 82.76% efficiency

Naturally, a spread-sheet can do all of the above very easily, which is why I'm confident that this is very feasible for the BTP program.

Each Stage-Two recipe is then opened and the grain bill adjusted accordingly, and style-wise, my post-boil O.G., alcohol by volume, and color for each are within guidelines and have been calculated by BTP as follows:
IPA -- 1.064 - 6.73% - 8.66SRM
ESB -- 1.055 - 5.78% - 7.52SRM
Blnd -- 1.043 - 4.49% - 5.93SRM

Hope that this might be helpful to someone.

Cheers.

Bill Velek
Visit www.tinyurl.com/bvelek - portal to my brewing sites: 3,100+ members on 'Grow-Hops', and 1,350+ brewers on my 'BrewingEquip' group.
Running BTP v1.5.3 on WinXP 2005 SP3 w/AMD Athlon 64@3800+, 1GigRam, Res 1024x768
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RE: Partigyle technique for BTP software

Postby wottaguy » Mon Jan 21, 2008 10:50 am

Hi Bill,

Thanks for your post and also for the most valuable information.

I too have been using BTP in almost the same manner to lay out my partigyle schedules, and although a bit of trial and error is required, it is almost possible to do with a good amount of confusion included.

I would like to ask of the collective that uses BTP to perform partigyle schedules to please think about posting their results of your attempts to this thread so maybe that the powers that be can glean some information from the postings to attempt to design and implement a Partiglye Mash Designer with in BTP. I am most interested in the raw numbers (SG) of each of the runoffs with voulme collected, and of your normal brewhouse efficency ratings. Please also post the main mash recipe and SG that the recipe starts with and any other techniques or insights you have implemented.

In the near future I will be collecting data regarding this topic and will post my methods and results as soon as I can. I have a german lager already scheduled, so it will be after that has been completed. I usually perform double partigyle sessions but you have me interested in attempting a triple!

Thanks again for your information, and I hope that others will follow.

Ron (_)3
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Re: RE: Partigyle technique for BTP software

Postby billvelek » Fri Feb 01, 2008 2:53 pm

wottaguy wrote:I would like to ask of the collective that uses BTP to perform partigyle schedules to please think about posting their results of your attempts to this thread so maybe that the powers that be can glean some information from the postings to attempt to design and implement a Partiglye Mash Designer with in BTP. I am most interested in the raw numbers (SG) of each of the runoffs with voulme collected, and of your normal brewhouse efficency ratings. Please also post the main mash recipe and SG that the recipe starts with and any other techniques or insights you have implemented. ... snip

Sorry for the delay in posting here regarding my last partigyle (I almost forgot about it), but I don't guess a delay matters much here at the rate things get done. :(

Anyway, my last one was a 'double' partigyle ... of sorts ... because I blended the runnings and sparges to get equal gravities for two batches; I guess, in that sense, it isn't really a partigyle -- just a double-batch -- but I used the same two-stage technique in BTP that I used last time in order to produce the extract (stage one) and then using that I developed separate 4.75 gallon batches with different hops (stage two). But actually this caused me to realize that for your apparent purposes, wottaguy, you ought to be able to use the gravities of the successive running and sparges for ANY recipe, couldn't you? The partigyle aspect just comes into play with the appropriate blending of the runnings/sparges to achieve the correct separate gravities -- which is really just simple mathematics (ratios) which don't require any 'record' of experiences.

Having said all of that, here is my data for the purpose of making two different 4.75 gallon batches of oatmeal stout (same grain bill but different hop schedules):
16# of two-row Briess Pale Malt
42 ounces of oatmeal (odd sounding amount, but that's the weight of one full container I buy at the grocery)
1# black malt
1# roasted barley

My typical efficiency is 75% so, with BTP set at that and based upon my water additions, it predicted an initial kettle volume of 11.39 gallons @ 211F with a S.G. of 1.047. My schedule consisted of 5 gallons of strike water (slightly less than 1 quart/pound) and 2.75 gallons for mashout, with first runnings of 5.33 gallons; ACTUAL first runnings were only 4.25 gallons, so I'm somehow I must have my deadspace set wrong or something). Then I used 3 gallons for my first batch sparge, and BTP predicted 3.07 gallons (I don't know how BTP came up with an extra .07 gallons), and ACTUAL first sparge runnings were 2.8 gallons (hmmm ... 3 gallons into saturated grains and only 2.8 gallons came out ... so I must not have spent enough time draining). Then, my I added 3 more gallons for my second and final batch sparge, and BTP predicted 3.07 gallons (an extra .07 gallons again) whereas my ACTUAL final runnings were 3.1 gallons (I tilted the tun that time, which reduced deadspace). Now, the gravity readings of those three runnings were as follows:
Initial Runnings -- 4.25 gallons @ 1.071
First Sparge -- 2.8 gallons @ 1.045
Second Sparge -- 3.1 gallons @ 1.028
TOTAL = 10.15 gallons @ average 1.050 pre-boil gravity
BTP had predicted 11.47 gallons, so I came up with over one gallon short, which I'm still trying to figure out. After I blended my runnings to get roughly equal gravities in each of two kettles, I had to top them up a bit to reach my pre-boil level (I didn't measure how much I had to add). I then stirred to elminate stratification and took another gravity reading of each just to be sure before beginning my boil, and at that point I had approximately 5.5 gallons in each (11 gallon total) at 1.049 each. So somewhere I must have messed up a measurement. I'll try to be more careful in the future.

Cheers.

Bill Velek
Visit www.tinyurl.com/bvelek - portal to my brewing sites: 3,100+ members on 'Grow-Hops', and 1,350+ brewers on my 'BrewingEquip' group.
Running BTP v1.5.3 on WinXP 2005 SP3 w/AMD Athlon 64@3800+, 1GigRam, Res 1024x768
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RE: Partigyle technique....

Postby wottaguy » Fri Feb 01, 2008 3:40 pm

Thanks Bill!

Great information there. I take it that you Batch Sparge? Please correct me if I am incorrect.

I am planning my next brew, a double partigyle batch and will post the info after it has been completed. Probably an English IPA and a Bitter. They both came out great last time but I didn't record the numbers and volumes. (shame on me)...LOL!! :oops:

Anyone else?

Thanks again,

(_)3
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