Feature Requests

Suggestions and discussion about upcoming features in future BeerTools Pro releases.

EBC Color Questions...???

Postby wottaguy » Fri Oct 05, 2007 6:12 pm

Jeff and or Lathe...

This is from a new but different post regarding the "old EBC color calculation" and BTP.

You can find the question here::

http://www.beertools.com/forum/viewtopi ... 5929#15929

I feel that the poster's concern is a very valid one!

Thanks!

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Request a new "Stage" for the ingredients list

Postby billvelek » Sun Jan 27, 2008 5:10 am

I recommend a new "Stage" in the drop-down list that would either be a 'blank' insertion field -- permitting users to insert a descriptive name right there -- or else one that would just say "Other -- see notes". This is to allow a user to be a bit more descriptive and accurate in his recipe specifics. For example, if I do a cereal mash with a portion of my grist -- or use any other technique such as "Boiled pre-mash" for my regular rice -- I'd like to indicate that rather than just enter "Mash (Mash Tun)". Likewise with hops, I'd like to differentiate between using a 'Hop Back', or 'Hop Tea', or 'Dry Hopping' in either the primary or secondary. I know that these things can be entered into the notes section, but without a flag in the main ingredients section and an indication of some sort on the first page of a printout, it would be easy to forget to look at the notes. Perhaps things like 'cereal mash', 'mini-mash', 'separate boil', etc., could be added as additional "Steps" to the 'Schedule' display and then show up on the printout, because that's what I use when I brew. My computer is inconvenient because it's in the living room while I brew in the kitchen or outside, so I therefore like to use my printout as a checklist.

Thanks.

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Postby just-cj » Sun Jan 27, 2008 5:14 am

Great idea. I've noticed that when I get html or pdf files of Beersmith or ProMash recipes, there are sometimes obscure things written in the notes field but no note or memo in the ingredients or procedures sections -- very confusing to say the least, and like you said, easy to miss.
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Request a new "Stage" for the ingredients list

Postby Bob57702 » Sun Jan 27, 2008 10:46 am

Not a bad idea. While on this topic what determines the available stages for an ingredient? You know how homebrewers are, they like to experiment. So maybe I would like to add some Honey to the secondary instead of the boil kettle. Not with the available stage options. I'd have to add a note to that affect that would likely get missed. And this may be a minor bug but did you notice that the default stage for everything is Mash Tun even if it's not a valid stage choice?

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Re: Request a new "Stage" for the ingredients list

Postby jeff » Sun Jan 27, 2008 2:09 pm

billvelek wrote:I recommend a new "Stage" in the drop-down list that would either be a 'blank' insertion field -- permitting users to insert a descriptive name right there -- or else one that would just say "Other -- see notes". This is to allow a user to be a bit more descriptive and accurate in his recipe specifics. For example, if I do a cereal mash with a portion of my grist -- or use any other technique such as "Boiled pre-mash" for my regular rice -- I'd like to indicate that rather than just enter "Mash (Mash Tun)". Likewise with hops, I'd like to differentiate between using a 'Hop Back', or 'Hop Tea', or 'Dry Hopping' in either the primary or secondary. I know that these things can be entered into the notes section, but without a flag in the main ingredients section and an indication of some sort on the first page of a printout, it would be easy to forget to look at the notes. Perhaps things like 'cereal mash', 'mini-mash', 'separate boil', etc., could be added as additional "Steps" to the 'Schedule' display and then show up on the printout, because that's what I use when I brew. My computer is inconvenient because it's in the living room while I brew in the kitchen or outside, so I therefore like to use my printout as a checklist.

Thanks.

Bill Velek


The primary purpose for the stage menu is to indicate how BTP should use the ingredient in the calculations. For example, when a hop is added during the boil, BTP knows that it should include the hop in the bitterness calculation routine.

I see how stage can appear as a logical choice to use for brewer's notations. However, I feel that another solution should be found for including such notations since the stage value is a vital part of the math. If a user were to enter some custom stage for an ingredient, it will not be clear to BTP how to use the ingredient in the calculations.

A remarks field of some sort might be a way that users can enter personal notations to assist during the brewing session. These remarks could then be included in the print-out along with the stage.
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Re: Request a new "Stage" for the ingredients list

Postby billvelek » Sun Jan 27, 2008 6:26 pm

jeff wrote:The primary purpose for the stage menu is to indicate how BTP should use the ingredient in the calculations. For example, when a hop is added during the boil, BTP knows that it should include the hop in the bitterness calculation routine.
Yes, I noticed this prior to sending my request. But apparently BTP is already currently set-up to sometimes ignore certain ingredients -- including some hops -- in its calculations; e.g., BTP will already permit me to select four out of five settings for hops ["Post Boil (Kettle)", "Primary (Fermenter)", "Secondary (Fermenter)", and "Finish (Bottle)"] which seem to be ignored in calculations because BTP does not figure any amount of alpha- or iso-alpha-acid masses [the mg/L value shown in the bar graph] ... OR ... bittering units [the percentage of U shown in the bar graph as well as the 'Bitterness' under the 'Style Tab'] (see 'Bugs' for a new bug I've just found there, as well). The _only_ one of the menu choices for hops where calculations actually appear to be made is "Boil (Kettle)", so I don't see the big deal with allowing us to add 'Hop Tea' or 'Dry Hops' as more specific post-boil additions which do not result in significant alpha-acid utilization in the first place (even if somehow extracted, the alpha acids are still not isomerized without a boil). Another good example is the honey mentioned by Bob; I had never noticed, but as he has pointed out, the ONLY stage option for that is "Boil (Kettle)" despite that BTP defaults to "Mash (Mash Tun)". Now, we all know that no one in their right mind is going to put honey in the mash tun, although they will perhaps add it during the boil; I think most will probably add it "Post-Boil (Kettle)", or later, so we should have that option -- not to mention the fact that I don't see what "calculations" the honey needs to be used for except for gravity.

jeff wrote:I see how stage can appear as a logical choice to use for brewer's notations. However, I feel that another solution should be found for including such notations since the stage value is a vital part of the math. If a user were to enter some custom stage for an ingredient, it will not be clear to BTP how to use the ingredient in the calculations.
I've already touched on this, above, but will add that I have no problem with BTP somehow using "another solution" so long as we have some way to indicate in our recipe what our actual process is -- not only as a reminder to ourselves or a checklist for brewing away from the computer, but also as a way to clearly indicate our recipe to those we share it with.

jeff wrote:A remarks field of some sort might be a way that users can enter personal notations to assist during the brewing session. These remarks could then be included in the print-out along with the stage.
I'm not sure how a "Remarks" section is going to be different than a "Notes" section; the "Notes" are already currently printed out, but my point is that it is easy to miss a note ... and unless the 'remarks' are somehow included in a procedures list, I think it will be just as easy to miss as the "Notes" now are ... UNLESS there is a 'flag' check-box column where we can, for any ingredient, check it to signify "see Notes". That is somewhat similar to my request to be able to choose "Other -- see notes", but without disconnecting the ingredient from any BTP 'calculations'.

And, of course, for any newbies using BTP, wanting to add honey to their fermenter and not being allowed to do it ... without an understanding of why ... is just going to cause frustration and inevitably some repeated questions.

Cheers.

Bill Velek
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