does sugar really effect terminial gravity?

Discussion and topics about BeerTools.com online calculators and other tools.

Moderator: jeff

does sugar really effect terminial gravity?

Postby entguy » Fri Apr 12, 2002 12:31 pm

In the Recipe Calculator, if I add sugar (plain or corn) to a recipe, the estimated terminal gravity rises. Seems to me like that should all get fermented out and not affect TG.

How well does the recipe calculator here agree with what happens in the brewhouse real world? Anybody have info or comments on that?

thx -- e!!
entguy
Light Lager
Light Lager
 
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu Apr 11, 2002 12:14 pm

Sugar Additions & TG...

Postby Mesa Maltworks » Tue Apr 16, 2002 9:14 am

I haven't used this site's recipe calculator, but all things being equal... You cannot ferment down to 1.0 SG (same as water), there will always be a certain amount of sugar that does not ferment out unless you use enzymatic additives. Even if you could, you wouldn't like the results... a very, very dry beer ! The remaining sugars are complex ones such as (but not limited to) maltose and xylose which are not as easliy fermented as fructose (fruit sugar) and dextrose (corn sugar). To better ferment the higher sugars, enzymes have to be used to break the remaining sugars down to less complex chains for the yeast to eat.

One of the additives used in the industry to make light beers is the same as the active ingredient in Beano, an anti-gas aide. A 3~5 tablets in 5 gallons will reduce the body of a beer greatly... if you like thin beer, try this one ! I often wonder if you do this, do you also fart less when drinking it ? ;)

As an aside... alot of the malternative "alcopop" beverages such as Zima, Tequiza, Smirinov Ice, hard lemonades, "wine" coolers... etc... are made with malt being 100% of the fermentable ingredients. They add enzymes to get the beverage to ferment out as much as possible and then add water, sweetners and flavoring to finish them off. Wouldn't want to let something as inconvenient as FLAVOR to get in the way of efficient alcohol delivery !

If anyone is interested, I have extracted the recipy for Zima from the patent application from Coors and can post it. It is both scary and funny at the same time !
User avatar
Mesa Maltworks
Strong Ale
Strong Ale
 
Posts: 474
Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2001 10:16 pm
Location: Georgetown, Grand Cayman Island

has anybody ELSE tested this site's recipe calculator?

Postby entguy » Tue Apr 16, 2002 4:46 pm

Mesa -- Thanks; I'm always impressed with the quality of your responses. How are you involved in the industry?

I researched the Beano thing at one point, and it really seemed to me that the Beano enzyme hydrolysed a different oligosaccharide bond than was present in the the starch-derived oligosaccharides (what is the bond that malt-derived amylases work on again? 2-4?), and that Beano would hence not affect those oligosaccharides (same as alpha/beta amylase have no effect on beta-glucans because of enzymatic specificity). Can you give more info on the beano thing, e.g. specific bonds that Beano works on, or perhaps references -- preferably web, as I don't have nearby access to a good Food Science university library?

Re - the recipe calculator thing, I was working toward a Belgian Saison clone, adding some type of sugars at about 30-40% of the fermentables as per that style (roughly). When I added the simple sugars as fermentables, the TG jumped from 1.010-ish to 1.022 -- that seems like a really jumpy jump at an addition of say 35% sugar, do ya think???

TIA to all -- entguy
entguy
Light Lager
Light Lager
 
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu Apr 11, 2002 12:14 pm

I gotta see this

Postby Push Eject » Wed Apr 17, 2002 5:27 am

Mesa, please post the Zima recipe. It's gotta be a trip.
User avatar
Push Eject
Double IPA
Double IPA
 
Posts: 233
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2001 1:01 pm
Location: Lancaster, CA, US

If you hate bio-chemistry... don't read this !

Postby Mesa Maltworks » Wed Apr 17, 2002 1:48 pm

I. Enzymatic Starch Reduction:

1. Alpha Amylase: (Active of Beano) Breaks 1,4 linkages in starch during liquification, producing dextrin and a small amount of maltose. It leaves the 1,6 links, so it is self limiting.

2. BioCellulase-W (Convertase MG-30): Breaks beta glucans into smaller saccharides, dextrin and some sugar.

3. Convertase AG-300: A glucoamylase that reduces ALL starches to glucose. Particularly interesting results when used in mashing !

Other than pectic enzymes (haze reduction & better filtration of fruit beer via protein reduction), these are the leading additives used in pro-brewing.


II. Recipe Calculator Comments from entguy:

It does strike me as odd that the TG gravity jump would as high as you got using the calculator. Not having used it, I would suggest you get with the calculator's authors to ferret this out.

Eric
User avatar
Mesa Maltworks
Strong Ale
Strong Ale
 
Posts: 474
Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2001 10:16 pm
Location: Georgetown, Grand Cayman Island

gliches in the system

Postby Fraoch » Thu Apr 18, 2002 2:15 am

Hey, sticking my neck out here, wouldnt want to get struck off!!But, i notice that the calculator is a touch shy on colour when using amounts of black or roasted, the terminal grav derived from the calculator will not be that of brewing practice, if you view "oor Jummys Stoot" youll notice that i went away from personal experience and chased the 100% compatability with regards to colour. the result was extremely dark to say the least and at mash temp of 65c ( work out f yourselves) FG is at 1020!!! Way to heavy. I now ignore the colour and calculate my own fg
Fraoch
Double IPA
Double IPA
 
Posts: 215
Joined: Fri May 18, 2001 4:36 am

zima! zima!

Postby stumpwater » Thu Apr 18, 2002 1:16 pm

I am with Push Eject, let's see that Zima recipe.
stumpwater
Double IPA
Double IPA
 
Posts: 109
Joined: Sun Feb 10, 2002 11:04 pm


Return to BeerTools.com Online Tools

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests