Recipe Help!

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Recipe Help!

Postby lgtg » Thu Mar 29, 2007 1:04 pm

Okay, without being too wordy, I need someone to help me settle a partial mash recipe (particularly how to sub 2 row for some LME) I will brew a 2.5 gallon batch and also need water help as well.

here is what I have:

(Iron Rat Oatmeal Stout)

3.3lb dark LME

(I have 5lbs surplus 2 row that I want to use SOME of for the mash, this is where I need the help)

4oz Crystal 90
2oz Chocolate
8oz Roasted Barley
2oz Black Patent
4oz Cara-Pils

1oz Williamette (@boil)
0.5oz Williamette (@30 minutes)

The specialty grains were custom measured for my half batch, this was originally an extract-grain recipe. I recently acquired the surplus 2 row and would like to take first steps into partial mash (want to convert any sugars possible here) Looking for a higher OG than the style profile and want to step up the ABV to something like high 5's or low 6's. Can anyone make this easy for me? I don't have to use all the LME for this. I do, however, want to use enough 2row ro convert itself, the specialty grains and the oats. HELP! Will be brewing this on Monday night (4/2/07) Thanks in advance!

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Postby slothrob » Thu Mar 29, 2007 4:43 pm

I'm working on it, but I need to know how much oatmeal you're using.
Somewhere around 1/2#?
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No Takers??

Postby lgtg » Thu Mar 29, 2007 4:43 pm

C'mon! Not even one taker?
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Postby slothrob » Thu Mar 29, 2007 4:50 pm

Just me.

I have a recipe nearly done, but I need the amount of oatmeal to do it right.
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Postby slothrob » Thu Mar 29, 2007 5:43 pm

I have a recipe designed, essentially you need at least a pound of 2-row for each pound of other grain.
If your oatmeal stout really has no oatmeal, then you need about 1.5# 2-row.
If you just forgot to type in the oatmeal, then that would require as much more 2-row as there was oatmeal. Assuming 1/2 pound of oatmeal, then 2# of total 2-row.

Unfortunately, using all the LME will make this a 7.2% beer, you have the optoin of either using less extract (2.5# of LME will give you 6% abv, as would 2# of DME.) Or you could just mash all 5# of 2-row for a 5.3% stout without using any extract. I used a relatively conservative 65% efficiency for the calculations, If you're efficiency is lower or higher, you may want to adjust the extract to correct it.

If you go with the oatmeal and extract, you'll need to do a 4# total mash. At 1.5 qt/# you would mash 4# in 6 qts of water at 150
Last edited by slothrob on Thu Mar 29, 2007 5:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Oatmeal stout extract to partial mash

Postby slothrob » Thu Mar 29, 2007 5:48 pm

Iron Rat Oatmeal Stout
13-C Oatmeal Stout

Image

Size: 2.5 gal
Efficiency: 65.0%
Attenuation: 70.2%
Calories: 217.98 per 12.0 fl oz

Original Gravity: 1.065 (1.048 - 1.065)
|=======================#========|
Terminal Gravity: 1.019 (1.010 - 1.018)
|==========================#=====|
Color: 31.9 (22.0 - 40.0)
|================#===============|
Alcohol: 5.99% (4.2% - 5.9%)
|========================#=======|
Bitterness: 51.97 (25.0 - 40.0)
|================================|

Ingredients:
2.5 lbs Dark Liquid
2.0 lbs American 2-row
0.5 lbs Oats Flaked
[size=84]4 oz Crystal Malt 90
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I'm sorry slothrob....!

Postby lgtg » Thu Mar 29, 2007 8:16 pm

I was running around tonight. You were correct in assuming 0.5lb oats. I might be inclined to use 0.75lb but I will just sit back and review your findings. I can't thank you enough man. I will follow up after reading....
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65% is what I messed around with when trying Beer Smith

Postby lgtg » Thu Mar 29, 2007 8:23 pm

Looks like Beer Tools does a fine job. I can't thank you enough for your trouble slothrob, yoodaman! I was getting some anxiety over this, seeing what you've done will give me some research to look at and break it down. I really, really appreciate it.

I'll keep you posted on the progress. I bottled a case of German hefe tonight. Looked pretty close to the SRM and smelled pretty close to the profile. Spent time drinking them in Germany, my primary of sorts while there.
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Boil off rate

Postby lgtg » Thu Mar 29, 2007 8:31 pm

do you think (based on your experience) that a 1 gallon boil off is typical?
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Postby slothrob » Fri Mar 30, 2007 8:09 am

My weakness when in Germany is a good German Pils, like Jever, but I've been known to put back more than my share of a nice Hefe. I made a similar Oatmeal Stout last year, also a partial mash, that came out excellent, so you should be happy with this next one, too. My calculations indicate that it will end a little sweet due to the higher gravity, but not far off for the style. What yeast are you using? This will partly dictate how sweet it finishes, among other things.

You should be able to go to 0.75# Oatmeal with no problem. Be sure to use Flaked Oats or Quick Oatmeal, the long cooking Oatmeal requires a more complicated technique called a Cereal Mash.

I get about 1 gallon boil-off from my 5 gallon pot on my kitchen stove (maybe a little more depending on how long the hot break takes to settle before I start the 60' timer) and closer to 1.5 gallon boil-off from my 8 gallon pot on the turkey frier propane outside.

You might be able to figure your boil-off if you know how much you started with for your Hefe and how much water you needed to add to get to 5 gal.
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Postby lgtg » Fri Mar 30, 2007 11:43 am

I'm using WL Irish Ale (forgot the number) Yeah, I won't mind a little extra sweetness but I could add most of the 60 hops to balance, what do you think? I recall the high IBU you had at 1oz 60 and 0.5oz 30, how could I adjust (sensably) with out sending the IBU's above 45ish? (style limits?)

Also, I was thinking about the LME modification you indicated, it's a 3.3lb container. I would be "eyeballing" to get a 2.5# out of that, I mean, I'm okay with that, might have a little "freestyle" on the estimate without a scale. But to compensate for the higher gravity, I was going to use some LME and make a starter with the WL Irish Ale, do you think that the higher cell counts from propagation with munch some of that up?
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Postby slothrob » Fri Mar 30, 2007 12:46 pm

Irish Ale is a yeast I like, but it's not a strong attenuator. You'll end up with a flavorful but slightly sweet beer. A starter's probably a good idea for insuring that the beer finishes as low as possible. I've used a 2.5 gallon beer in the 1.040 as the starter for a larger beer, but with your higher OG, a starter around a quart should give you a more appropriate cell number (check mrmalty.com's pitching calculator to find an accurate estimate for starter sizes.)

0.75 oz of EKG's with 5% alpha acid content calculated out to about 43 IBU, if I recall. Since your OG is high, this slightly high-for-style bitterness should help balance the beer. I think the 50 IBU from the whole ounce could work, but it depends how bitter your willing to risk. If you have a high tolerance for bitterness, or use more extract, I'd use it all. But, if you're not a big fan of bitter beers, I'd drop the 60' down to 0.75 oz.
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Postby BillyBock » Sun Apr 01, 2007 8:52 am

lgtg, here's a few thoughts for your consideration:

1) Not all LME is created equal. Some brands are more dextrinous than others (Laaglander for example is 50% fermentable) that'll leave your beer with a higher final gravity, lowering your hop balance and your ABV.

2) Not sure how dark your LME is, but odds are it was made with some roasted grains. Since it looks like you have plenty of roasted steeping grains as it is, this may also make it roastier than intended. I'd consider replacing your dark LME with plain LME.

3) I typically use about 1# of roasted grains in a stout recipe when making a 5 gal batch--yours has roughly the same amount in half the batch size. Have you tried this recipe before? This amount may be overpowering. But then again, homebrewing is about experimenting with new things. I'd be curious to see how your taste buds like it.

Hope this helps.

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Postby lgtg » Sun Apr 01, 2007 6:46 pm

[quote="BillyBock"]lgtg, here's a few thoughts for your consideration:

1) Not all LME is created equal. Some brands are more dextrinous than others (Laaglander for example is 50% fermentable) that'll leave your beer with a higher final gravity, lowering your hop balance and your ABV.

2) Not sure how dark your LME is, but odds are it was made with some roasted grains. Since it looks like you have plenty of roasted steeping grains as it is, this may also make it roastier than intended. I'd consider replacing your dark LME with plain LME.

3) I typically use about 1# of roasted grains in a stout recipe when making a 5 gal batch--yours has roughly the same amount in half the batch size. Have you tried this recipe before? This amount may be overpowering. But then again, homebrewing is about experimenting with new things. I'd be curious to see how your taste buds like it.

Hope this helps.

v/r
Bill[/quote]

Hey Bill, I've brewed this recipe before but it did not utilize any 2-row or flaked oats (these are my tweaks) The recipe was designed by the brewmaster of the LHBS. The LME is Briesse and is indeed dark. Since the specialty grains are set (the LHBS is almost three hours from my home and my daughter brought it down for me) the variables are the amount of LME and the amount of 2-row that I recently acquired.

slothrob suggested 2.5# of the LME, I've been thinking about it and it may be difficult to achieve that without any measuring equipment. I can eyeball it at best. It would seem easier to me to just split the container in half and go with that. I'll use the 2# 2row base malt, half LME container and the rest of the recipe. The taste is high roast, coffee like and had some black licorice notes. I love robust, potent and full tasting beer. Thanks for your input and I'll continue to "dabble".

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Postby BillyBock » Mon Apr 02, 2007 6:20 pm

By all means..."dabble" away :lol:

If you're worried about measuring your LME you could use all 3.3# and then dilute with water in the kettle (or in the fermenter) to get the gravity you're looking (assuming your kettle and fermenter have the room).
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