Making a "yeast cream"; is this better / worth the

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Making a "yeast cream"; is this better / worth the

Postby billvelek » Fri Dec 15, 2006 5:30 pm

I'm using the new BeerToolsPro software -- which is very impressive to me -- and I'm planning to brew a batch tomorrow that will include Fermentis Safale US-56 yeast. The program contains instructions for pitching which state: "Re-hydrate the dry yeast into yeast cream in a stirred vessel prior to pitching. Sprinkle the dry yeast in 10 times its own weight of sterile water or wort at 27C
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Postby JPinAZ » Mon Dec 18, 2006 11:47 am

Those instructions sound like a lot of extra work. I've used US56 for my past three batches & all I've done is dump the packet into the carboy & pour the chilled wort on top. All three batches had activity within 6 hours or so.

As far as fermentation temps, check out Fermentis' web site. They have a technical sheet on US56. IIRC their site was a bit difficult to navigate & I think I found the actual page through Google.

Edit: I just remembered I put the link in the database addition thread for BTP.

http://www.fermentis.com/FO/EN/pdf/SafaleUS-56.pdf
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Thanks, 'JP'

Postby billvelek » Mon Dec 18, 2006 1:37 pm

I've checked it out; has the same 'yeast cream' instructions, which I guess is where BTP got that info. Temp range is 59F to 75F. I always try to keep my fermenters as much under 70F but above 65F as I can -- using evaporative cooling when necessary.

Cheers.

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Postby ColoradoBrewer » Mon Jan 15, 2007 9:54 am

When using Fermentis products I also just sprinkle the dry yeast on top of the wort. I tried hydrating the yeast by mixing it in 90
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Re: Thanks, 'JP'

Postby Speyedr » Thu Jan 25, 2007 12:26 pm

billvelek wrote:I've checked it out; has the same 'yeast cream' instructions, which I guess is where BTP got that info. Temp range is 59F to 75F. I always try to keep my fermenters as much under 70F but above 65F as I can -- using evaporative cooling when necessary.

Cheers.

Bill Velek


I've always heard that you should rehydrate dry yeast. Also, I have heard that making a starter with it is actually detrimental as the yeast will start to use up the reserves that the company worked so hard to put into the yeast. You want to save this for your beer. As I understand it from Mrmalty.com and others, dry yeast does not require a starter, and probably does not benefit from it either.

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Dry yeast and starters

Postby billvelek » Thu Jan 25, 2007 12:50 pm

Thanks for the comment, Speyedr. You're actually the second person who mentioned Mr. Malty to me ... TODAY ... regarding yeast. I don't know why I've never come across this resource before; it's not like I live in a cave. :D Anyway, the other person was in a post to the Members of Barleyment mail list, and he provided this link to its Pitching Rate Calculator: http://www.mrmalty.com/calc/calc.html -- which I found interesting enough to start a thread in the BeerToolsPro forum suggesting this as a possible new feature to be added to BTP.

Anyway, let me explain that I'm a 'frugal' brewer, not just with money but with time. I therefore usually try to brew double batches which economizes on my time (cleanup is the same cleanup with one or more batches), and I generally reuse my slurry at least once, and sometimes twice. When I don't use slurry, I usually use Fermentis dry yeast which costs $2.50 for an 11.5 gram pack. Instead of using two packs for two batches (just splitting one would be under pitching), I instead make a starter which includes yeast nutrient, and then I split the starter. I also figure that this is helping to get things going in the fermenter since the yeast is already hydrated and very active, and my method has worked very well for me. I usually get good krauesening pretty quick, and I can't remember the last stuck fermentation, and my beer tastes pretty good. But ... ideally ... I'm going to start using that calculator to see how that affects my beer, and if you have been using it with success, I hope you will mention it here so that Jeff and Lathe can consider whether this would be a valuable addition to BTP.

Cheers.

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Postby Speyedr » Thu Jan 25, 2007 2:09 pm

I mentioned it in the other thread regarding it as a feature for BTP. I think it would be an awesome addition to any package. I got to it through The Brewing Network. The forum over there is great and the I love the podcast as it goes well with my 40-minute commute. If you haven't checked it out already, do so. I HIGHLY recommend it.

I hear you about your frugal brewing nature, and making a starter in that regard does make sense. The pitching rate calc can definitely help with re-pitching slurry, but I don't know about the dry yeast. I'm pretty sure the calc doesn't cover it. The key though, I would think, would be to start the starter less than 24hrs from brew day, and make it big enough so that you are getting growth. If you let it ferment out you are gong to lose some of the vitality. You may still get great results, but they'd probably be better if it didn't. I am not the expert though.

I will say though that Jamil is one of the most helpful guys I have run into in this hobby. If you post a question regarding starters for dry yeast in the TBN forum he will likely chime in. And if you e-mail him a specific question about it he will definitely respond. You can get his address on the Mr Malty website.

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Postby Dissolution » Fri Jan 26, 2007 11:27 am

I used Fermentis Safale US-56 yeast on my last batch, I pitched it dry into the fermenter at 58
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Postby Speyedr » Fri Jan 26, 2007 2:48 pm

[quote="Dissolution"]I used Fermentis Safale US-56 yeast on my last batch, I pitched it dry into the fermenter at 58
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But ... stirring for 30 minutes???

Postby billvelek » Fri Jan 26, 2007 3:14 pm

As per my initial post that started this thread, Fermentis recommends: "Once the expected weight of dry yeast is reconstituted into cream by this method (this takes about 15 to 30 minutes), maintain a gentle stirring for another 30 minutes." Does anyone actually "maintain" stirring for 30 minutes? I guess I could watch TV while doing that, but I hate the idea of my yeast being exposed to air contaminants for 30 minutes. That just seems to be over the top; I've never heard of doing that before, which is why I questionned it in the first place.

Cheers.

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Postby ColoradoBrewer » Sat Jan 27, 2007 6:45 pm

[quote="Speyedr"][quote="Dissolution"]I used Fermentis Safale US-56 yeast on my last batch, I pitched it dry into the fermenter at 58
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Packet instructions

Postby billvelek » Sun Jan 28, 2007 10:47 am

[quote="ColoradoBrewer"][quote="Speyedr"][quote="Dissolution"]I used Fermentis Safale US-56 yeast on my last batch, I pitched it dry into the fermenter at 58
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Postby ColoradoBrewer » Sun Jan 28, 2007 12:12 pm

Bill, after I posted my comments, above, I tried do a little research on the matter. I must say that there doesn't seem to be a definitive answer to the question. Even Fermentis seems to muddy the waters because their comments on usage seem to vary with the audience they are addressing. To commercial brewers they say to rehydrate (no mention of sprinkling), but to us homebrewers they give the option. The directions for making the yeast cream are very detailed and specific compared to other dry yeast suppliers. Also, you'll note the the recommended temperature is 27
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Postby slothrob » Sun Jan 28, 2007 5:02 pm

It may have been in the same interview as mentioned above, but I heard that the dry yeast are porous and wort leaks in when sprinkled dry. Depending on the gravity of the wort, this will kill some percentage of the yeast. For this reason, rehydrating the yeast will result in yeast with more viable cells.

BUT, after about 15 minutes (I think they said 15, not 30), the yeast starts using up it's glycogen stores, so it will begin to weaken. So there's a balance between viable and weak cells that can make either one technique or the other less desirable. Because it may be difficult for a homebrewer to keep the rehydration conditions optimal, they made the decision to recommend dry sprinkling.

Sorry I can't remember the exact times they recommended, but I belive I heard it on the BrewingNetwork, if you want to find the discussion.
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