question about oxygen

What went wrong? Was this supposed to happen? Should I throw it out? What do I do now?

Moderator: slothrob

question about oxygen

Postby joemez » Mon Aug 18, 2003 2:30 am

during my transfer to secondary on my latest batch, i had a problem with my siphon. It was drawing air for the whole transfer. I tasted it at that point and it was good, now after a week in the secondary it seems to have gotten worse. Maybe after a bit of conditioning it will get better but it seems to have lost all the flavoring of the type I am making. What are the ill effects of oxygen introduced at that point?
I am using a fermentation chiller(65deg. constant) and my sanitizing is good, so I hope it is the oxygen thing or I am stumped.
joemez
Pale Ale
Pale Ale
 
Posts: 85
Joined: Thu Jul 03, 2003 7:41 am

Description

Postby BillyBock » Mon Aug 18, 2003 2:11 pm

Can you describe the flavor? Alot of times what we think is air entrailing through the transfer tube is CO2 coming out of solution. Describe what you tasted/smelled and we'll go from there. But the default advice is to package your beer and age it. Homebrewers drink their mistakes :-) If it was oxygen pickup it will lead to staling and shorten the shelf life of your beer. If so, drink it up quick!

v/r
Bill
BillyBock
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 561
Joined: Sun Dec 31, 2000 12:37 pm
Location: Ohio

definately air

Postby joemez » Mon Aug 18, 2003 4:16 pm

Thanks for responding Bill
I am using an auto-siphon and air was being drawn in past the seal on the pump(I tried it in water after). I wish I could describe the taste. the best I could describe would be maybe an soapy taste, or even a bitter or alcohol taste.(sorry I am being so vauge). Would air being drawn in cause it to go bad so quick? It got the off taste during secondary fermentation.
joe
joemez
Pale Ale
Pale Ale
 
Posts: 85
Joined: Thu Jul 03, 2003 7:41 am

What about your secondary?

Postby fitz » Tue Aug 19, 2003 3:47 am

What cleaning steps did you take on your secondary? Is it possible that you may have not been able to clean the shoulders enough?
What type of beer is it? Some beers go through an akward stage, and the off flavors subside after a little bottle conditioning. Is this a beer you have made before?
fitz
Strong Ale
Strong Ale
 
Posts: 442
Joined: Thu Dec 19, 2002 9:36 am

cleaning

Postby joemez » Tue Aug 19, 2003 11:18 am

I scrub the inside of it with a large brush and flush it real good. Then I let it sit with either Iodopher or B-brite in it(corked) till I need to use it again. Then I flush it again and use Iodopher, drain and let air dry.
The type is a Nut Brown Ale.
I dont know how but I think I am not being thourough enough with my cleaning and sanitizing. I have had only one really good batch out of the 5 or so I have tried since getting back into this a few months ago. The off flavor seems to be the same as all the other batches that went bad way back before I left the hobby years ago. I am getting so frustrated! Dont know why I cant get this! I never hear of anyone else having problem like I am. I'm gonna get it if it kills me, or I run out of money. whatever comes first.
Can someone describe their cleaning and sanitizing practices in detail. Maybe something will stick out that I might be doing wrong.
Thanks everyone for helping me out here. I REALLY appreciate it!
joemez
Pale Ale
Pale Ale
 
Posts: 85
Joined: Thu Jul 03, 2003 7:41 am

Cleaners and Sanitizers

Postby BillyBock » Tue Aug 19, 2003 2:14 pm

Why don't you try switching sanitizers for a while. I switched to Star-San 2 years ago and have never looked back. I've never had an infected batch since switching. For cleaning I use PBW, made by the same company.

Star San is pricey at first glance. However, it lasts a LONG time. I store my unused stuff in a sealed bucket. And as long as the pH is below 3.0, it's still effective. It's a foaming sanitizer--the foam sanitizes as well, so it's not necessary to fill the vessel to the brim with it. Put in a gallon, slosh it around to wet all the surfaces so you have a 2 minute contact and you're sanitized. Drain it and the residue will form a protective layer even when dry (don't worry it's food safe, flavorless, colorless, etc.) Here's the link to the company

http://www.fivestarchemicals.com/brewers/index.html

Hope this helps.
v/r

Bill
BillyBock
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 561
Joined: Sun Dec 31, 2000 12:37 pm
Location: Ohio

stainless?

Postby joemez » Tue Aug 19, 2003 2:55 pm

can I use it on stainless, glass and plastic? how do you check the ph?
joemez
Pale Ale
Pale Ale
 
Posts: 85
Joined: Thu Jul 03, 2003 7:41 am

You Bet

Postby BillyBock » Tue Aug 19, 2003 4:57 pm

You most assuredly can. I allready own a pH meter since I went all-grain a long time ago, so it makes it easy to check if the Star San is still good. You can pick up a basic meter for $30.

Forgot to mention, but you can also use Star San as a spot sanitizer. Just put some in a spray bottle, and spritz it where you need it. Let drain and you're ready to go.

v/r
Bill
BillyBock
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 561
Joined: Sun Dec 31, 2000 12:37 pm
Location: Ohio

I'm on it

Postby joemez » Tue Aug 19, 2003 5:40 pm

I remember you suggesting this stuff a while back, so now I'm gonna try it.
Is it OK to leave it in the keg(stainless) or the glass carboy for a while?
I'm gonna order some so I can use it on my secondary(I have a batch in primary right now)
How does PBW work? should I get some of that too?
joemez
Pale Ale
Pale Ale
 
Posts: 85
Joined: Thu Jul 03, 2003 7:41 am

Star San and Stuff

Postby BillyBock » Tue Aug 19, 2003 6:15 pm

Oh yea, you can store it in the carboy or keg as long as it's the working strength and not straight concentrate from the bottle. It works by being an acid-based sanitizer--it keeps the pH well below the level that spoiling organisms can thrive in.

PBW is a percarbonate-based cleanser. If you've ever used One-Step, you've used one of these cleansers. They work by releasing oxygen to do the cleaning--just like Oxyclean from the stores. This stuff will go to town on the most stubborn of stains. Just let it sit and come back a while later and the stain wipes right off--no scrubbing.

They sell PBW in bulk or 2 oz. packages. You could try a small package and see if you like it. You could use Oxyclean as well, but it tends to leave a residue if you leave it in there too long (like overnight). Rinse it away while it's still warm.

Oh and I just had a thought. Instead of viewing your batches as infected, just referring to them as lambics and serve 'em to your friends :-)

Cheers
BillyBock
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 561
Joined: Sun Dec 31, 2000 12:37 pm
Location: Ohio

One more thing

Postby fitz » Wed Aug 20, 2003 4:48 am

Joemez,
Try the recipe that you did after Bill and I told you about wrapping the keg, and keeping the temp low. If you try it, and it turns out well, maybe the recipe that you are having the problem with is the culprit.
Are you trying recipes of beer styles that you have drank before and liked? I like most beers, but there has been some "not worthy" styles from around the globe that I just didn't care for. keep everything clean, try the successful recipe again, and if it turns out well, try tweaking it to get different flavors. Don't get discouraged, just have fun with it.
fitz
Strong Ale
Strong Ale
 
Posts: 442
Joined: Thu Dec 19, 2002 9:36 am

i like beer

Postby joemez » Wed Aug 20, 2003 1:00 pm

and all types. There is definitely something wrong with them. I have been doing kits of beer styles I love, so I doubt seriously that they are supposed to taste that way.
Ive got an American Amber in the primary in the chiller. I ordered the stuff Bill advised for cleaning and sanitizing so hopefully it will be here before I need to transfer to secondary. I just hope I was able to sanitize my primary carboy good enough.
Thanks for the advice guys. I'll keep you posted how it turns out
joemez
Pale Ale
Pale Ale
 
Posts: 85
Joined: Thu Jul 03, 2003 7:41 am

joemez

Postby fitz » Thu Aug 21, 2003 4:09 am

One more thing I thought of while drink a couple of my homebrews. Some hops have a flowery fragrance and taste. Cold this have been your soapy taste? You might try another kind of hops if the sanitizers don't do the trick.
fitz
Strong Ale
Strong Ale
 
Posts: 442
Joined: Thu Dec 19, 2002 9:36 am

I wish I was drinking one of MY home brews

Postby joemez » Thu Aug 21, 2003 1:29 pm

but I will be... eventually.
thanks for the advice
I have tried different hops but if this batch tastes off, I will retry that one that tasted good, again
joemez
Pale Ale
Pale Ale
 
Posts: 85
Joined: Thu Jul 03, 2003 7:41 am

just a thought

Postby Kevin » Fri Aug 22, 2003 7:58 pm

I seem to recall somewhere up in this thread that you are doing a full boil.. possibly you are not cooling the liquid quickly enough and oxidizing the presious liquid gold. When I first bought my 30 gallon brew pot I had no idea how hard it was going to be to cool 20 gallons of liquid down... it wasnt in the primary for more then 2 days and the whole place smelled like a skunk had droped a load in my living just prior to being run over by a truck....
Kevin
 
Posts: 2
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2003 9:08 am
Location: Winnipeg, MB, CA

Next

Return to Brewing Problems, Emergencies, Help!

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests