Stout recipe

Grains, malts, hops, yeast, water and other ingredients used to brew. Recipe reviews and suggestions.

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Stout recipe

Postby fitz » Tue Mar 11, 2003 8:26 am

I'm looking for a good stout recipe. I don't want it thick enough to use a spoon. Do any of you have a smooth "year around" stout. I'm looking for a good "real Ireland Guinness" recipe. I need a hopping schedule more than anything. Any help would be great.
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Guiness Clone

Postby dartedplus » Tue Mar 11, 2003 8:59 am

I made a Guinness clone tha I felt was dead on except for the fact that it wasnt on Nitro.
http://www.beertools.com/html/recipe.php?view=458
this was back in my extract days, but I felt the recipe was dead on, although it could maybe used just a titch more roasted barley for a more roasted taste
Ed
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chiming in

Postby Gravity Thrills » Tue Mar 11, 2003 3:17 pm

A couple of years ago I embarked on the quest of the perfect dry stout. I think Ed has some of it right in his recipe, but here are some additional suggestions.

If you are trying to emulate draft stout (minus the nitro), then 1.054 is too high an OG - that would ne more like the bottled version. Shoot for something closer to 1.040-1.045. Also, Guinnness does not use any crystal, or any other dark kilned malts (patent, chocolate, etc.) besides for roasted unmalted barley. Use at least a pound, and to get in the right color range you'll probably have to go for 1.5 lbs. That can make for a sharply burnt beer, and it was probably the most elusive part of my quest - I ultimately went a little lighter on the color to keep the flavor balance.

Use flaked barley for sure, but use at least 1-2 lbs of it or it's not going to give you the head you want. if you go over 1 pound, then I would follow Dave Miller's advice and use 2-row lager malt instead of pale ale malt. This, combined with a low temperature protein rest prior to starch conversion,will break down the beta glucans and high mw proteins in the flaked barley.

Use only a bittering hop addition, with no flavor or aroma additions.

Finally, I ssume Ed's inclusion of the acid malt was to approach the Guinness 'tang' in the flavor profile. Better and more true to the source would be to add a couple of pints of soured stout to the boil (pour a couple of pints, cover with cheese cloth and place in a closet and literally let them sour over 24-48 hours. Papazian mentioned this I think in the first book, and he suggests the brewery uses 1-2% pasteurized soured wort in their formulation.

Aside from that, the Irish ale yeast and the appropriate fermentation temperature should get you there.

Slainte'
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Thanks, 1 more ?

Postby fitz » Wed Mar 12, 2003 3:32 am

Thanks for the info.
Is Target and EK Goldings the traditional hops for Guinness?
I'd like to make it as true to for as I can, since it is impossible to find the real thing here anymore.
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good question

Postby Gravity Thrills » Wed Mar 12, 2003 4:00 am

I don't know that Guinness has stuck with a single hop through the years. Dave Line's recipe called for bullion and northern brewer - 4 oz total (!) all in the biol. Papazian's extract version called for 1.5 oz of bullion. Dave Miller's recipe (based on Line's) just says to use 15 AAUs of a high-alpa variety.

I forgot to mention that your water should be treated to get as close to a Dublin profile as possible, with high carbonate hardness.

Let us know how it goes.
Jim
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Thanks for the help

Postby fitz » Wed Mar 12, 2003 4:27 am

I'm going to try to keg, botlle and age it until fall, but if winter doesn't leave soon, it may disappear soon after carbonation!
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Tip for souring

Postby Fraoch » Thu Mar 13, 2003 12:46 am

AAAh Guinness !! How we all strive for it.Actually, your brew will no doubt be of fuller flavour.stouts really come to life when you make your own,Ive tried a few ways of getting that lactic tang that Guinness has, rumour has it that they still have the original fermenter which is infected, they then blend the two,nice story.But Guinness was originally a porter so blending may well have taken place(soured beer was more expensive than the fresh stuff and considered better, how things change)
Anyway, back to the point, ive tried souring a bottle of guinness and adding that,but to tell the truth i reckon that was a goer when the yeast was still in the bottle,Ive also tried adding lactic acid at point of bottling, but the two flavours never really married and it ALWAYS tasted like stout plus something.A sour mash could well be the go but it really is dependent on temp, length of souring etc and the results may differ from batch to batch.Instead i found agreat way quite by accident.Your mash will require chalk to balance off the acidity of those beautiful roasted grains( love that smell!)but your sparge water well may require acidifying to say ph 5-6.Use nothing but lactic acid @ 90% for this and if you put a touch too much chalk in and have to rebalance then all the better.The result is a good "Guinness" style tang that marries the malt and roast bitterness very well.Its also a very good way of quantifying the amount of lactic flavour added.Youll never drive off the lactic taste during boil but instead merry the flavours.
Enjoy your Guinness,That reminds me... must go pour one for myself,

Wassail!!!!

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Sour Stout

Postby fitz » Thu Mar 13, 2003 4:15 am

I think I may have an in for the soured stout.
I still have a few bottles of the first stout I ever made. I haven't made many, because I went with the addage, If a little is good, a lot is better, and it got a little too Stout (even for a stout). I have left those age (4 years or so) Anyway, I'll decant a few of those and let them sour a bit before I start the brew. I still have about 8 bottles, so I'll use 4 incase this turns out really well. I'll have enough for an extra batch. I think I'll prime with DME for added creamy texture on the head.
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sour power

Postby Gravity Thrills » Thu Mar 13, 2003 6:11 am

I rechecked the Papazian refernce, and he puts the amount of sour beer added at 3 percent in real Guinness. for a 5 gallon batch, that would be 19.2 ounces of soured stout - basically one imperoial pint. I have used two 12-oz bottles in 5 gallons, and as much as 2 pints in a slightly larger batch. You may want to just use two bottles the first time out.

I think Froach has some good ideas for souring as well. I never used lactic in the mash in the stout because of the low pH already present with the dark grains and having to balance that with the chalkiness of the water, but he has a good battle plan. Another approch would be to do a full soured batch as many people do with pseudo-lambics or Berliner weiss, but that will probably give you more pucker than you want. at any rate, I thought the flavors married nicely in my trials.

If you need a commercial refresher, the Guinness tang in question is that slight flavor difference that makes Guinness so intriguing, and Beamish or Murphy's merely very good. If you wanted to skip the souring altogether the first time around you would probably produce a very good beer similar to either of these. The next time I do a dry stout (sooner rather than later after this thread!), I may do a double-size mash and boil two separate worts, one with and one without the sour beer added to more critically assess the merits of the addition.

Cheers,
Jim
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Good Plan

Postby dartedplus » Thu Mar 13, 2003 8:00 am

That sounds like an excellent plan
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Yeah, but...

Postby Gravity Thrills » Thu Mar 13, 2003 8:31 am

Who could I possibly find to help me drink all that beer?!?
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Where are you located?

Postby fitz » Thu Mar 13, 2003 9:37 am

I'll volunteer if I can make it there from here!
By the way, thanks for the added info. I guess I have enough to sour 4 batches then. That first batch I did many moons ago just wasn't what I wanted. I think with added experience, and the info you guys gave me, I can do a good job on this one.
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Turn left at the Mouse

Postby Gravity Thrills » Thu Mar 13, 2003 1:56 pm

I'm on the east central coast of Floida, 90 minutes due east of Disney World. 5 minutes from the beach and fifteen seconds from the keg...
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Fire in the Hole!!!

Postby dartedplus » Thu Mar 13, 2003 6:21 pm

you know where to send it!!!!
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