Caramelized Malts?

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Caramelized Malts?

Postby BobbyK » Mon Feb 03, 2003 1:52 pm

I'm trying to put together my grain bill for a partial mash foreign stout. The full-blown microbrewery recipe calls for 77% pale two-row, 15% comination of three different caramelized malts, 5% roasted barley, 1.5% black malt and 1.5% chocolate malt. Keeping the style in mind, what three caramelized malts should I use and what should I use to replace the two-row with an extract? How do I convert the 77% grain to extract in terms of quantity? I'll be doing a 5 gal batch starting with a 4 gallon boil.
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you could cheat

Postby Fraoch » Tue Feb 04, 2003 3:00 am

OK, roasted has no extract qualities anyway, so you can use this to add a dryness to the product,the other 2 malts do however,but they are in tiny amounts,Personally i would add all the grains to the boil in order for their flavour qualities alone and put up with a little haze from the chocolate and black(she'll be dark anyway)The amount of pale is substituted for pale extract or light extract however it is termed.If i were making this then i would yield ALL the fermentable from the pale extract ignoring the 77% ratio and subsequent addition of some type of refined sugar.I always think it makes a much nicer beer if sugars are left out.
You can calculate the amount of pale extract required by using the gravity system
IE: 1kg malt ext will yield 303deg,

Example; 2kg pale = 2x303=606.
divide this by your batch size, in your case 5 gals or say 19 or 20 ltres and you get an OG of 1030.
Just to add,1 US gal = 3.785ltr

hope this helps,
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Don't boil grains

Postby jayhawk » Tue Feb 04, 2003 12:24 pm

Make sure to steep the specialty grains and not boil them, otherwise you will end up with harsh off flavours. The carmelized malts are probably different forms of crystal malts, and you could probably just get away with steeping 1/2 to 3/4 lb crystal 60 along with the other roasted malts you mention.
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Thanks!

Postby BobbyK » Tue Feb 04, 2003 1:40 pm

I appreciate your help. I think on paper this recipe works for me so hopefully I can pull it off.
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chocolate is not crystal

Postby Fraoch » Wed Feb 05, 2003 1:48 am

Chocolate malt is different to crystal and is like a lighter roasted barley in appearance.You probably have it in the states but under a different name.Crystal is named such because it cryatalises the endosperm during malting,this malt has previously germinated by being soaked prior.Chocolate on the other hand VERY much smells of chocolate and is made by roasting malted barley.it will yield a greater colour than crystal but will impart a definate chocolate flavour.I have boiled these grains before and not noticed the harsh tannin flavours described.I have however witnessed them when i injected steam through a mash to step mash,and believe me, when you get them, you certainly know it!!But if in doubt, err on the side of caution and cold steep before hand.Ive never done this but apparently double the amount of grain to ensure compensation of lack of extraction.But wait, if you cold steep malted grains, arent you just creating condition for lactic bacteria to form??? Is this a can of worms???

BobbyK, can you get Morgans extract in the states?? They do a whole range of extract using speciality grains so the extract brewer can never go near a grain if so desired,they come in smaller cans but they do do a chocolate.Pester your local homebrew guy to import some.
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Steeping

Postby jayhawk » Wed Feb 05, 2003 6:01 am

Chocolate is definately not crystal, I hope my earlier post did not imply the opposite. As for steeping, I have never heard of cold steeping, but what worked very well for me when I extract brewed was to steep the specialty grains (crystal, choc, patent...whatever) at mash temps (66-70C) for 30-60 mins. I then strain the liquid and mini sparge the grains with about a litre of warm water. I have never had lactic production from my steeping procedure. There is no need to double the amount of specialty grain when steeping at mash temps.
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Cold steeping?

Postby fitz » Wed Feb 05, 2003 8:03 am

I'm not sure what cold stteping is, but what you do is to put your grain in a grain bag, and to soak this in your boil pot until just before the boil. This gives you the good flavours, and leaves the harsh cattle feed flavors behind. I am also from the states as Fraoch put it, and I know for certain that Morgan's is sold widely here, as well as other "beer booster" extracts. I have recently bought many different types of malt from William's Brewing in California. There is just about any and all types of extracts out now. I still steep, and would do some all grain if I had the time, but I don't so I steep and extract brew. Don't get too hung up on following any one recipe to the letter, unless you have tried it and are sure this is the one for you. Many great inventions were made by accident, or changing one ingredient in a formula. Relax, and have fun.
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