Wort cooling

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Wort cooling

Postby Hodca » Thu Jan 24, 2002 6:48 pm

I use an immersion chiller hoping to drop the wort temperature faster. It still takes almost an hour to bring the wort to 80 - 90 degrees. Any ideas?
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C. flow, Hophead tip

Postby Fraoch » Fri Jan 25, 2002 2:40 am

Try using a counter flow, pretty darn effective if your water source is cool enough. If not , then hophead gave this tip: Pass your wort through iced saline solution. I had a problem chilling 10 gals in temps of 85 - 95f, yeh, gets hot here, so I used to run it through 10 gal bucket of ice water. By the end the water is pretty hot and needless to say no ice. But the inclusion of salt to the solution will keep your chiller chilled for much longer. I recently made 10 gals and pumped from the kettle almost immediately after boil through the chiller in ambient temp of 110f. It worked great, impossible conditions but a good and simple solution. Cheers hophead!!
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Glad

Postby hophead » Fri Jan 25, 2002 2:48 am

Glad it worked that well Gav......now ya owe me a homebrew:):)
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Another tip...

Postby dartedplus » Sat Jan 26, 2002 6:28 am

Here is something that I feel can help get the temp down faster. I also use an immersion chiller, 50' of copper tubing. As it is cooling, I lift and drop the chiller to circulate the wort around it more and it really helps it to cool down faster. Also, when it is close to being to the correct temp, agitate it more vigorously, and you will be aerating your wort at the same time. Works great for me. Kill 2 birds with one stone
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Agitation is the ticket!

Postby andytv » Sun Jan 27, 2002 6:19 pm

I agree with dartedplus. I chill approx 11.5 gallons in about 1 hr with a 30' immersion chiller. I figure I can rduce the time with a longer chiller, but consider this; If the water coming out of your chiller isn't almpst as hot as the wort, then you are wasting water. Immersion chillers tend to chill the wort in close proximity to the coils without dropping the temp enough to start any sort of currents. I know that within about a minute of chilling, the exit fluid is only warm to the touch, moving the chiller throughout the wort immediately brings the temp up drastically. I use an oxyenator to aerate later, but I agree that "stirring the wort with the chiller is the ticket to rapid cooling..
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It Really Does Help

Postby dartedplus » Mon Jan 28, 2002 12:07 pm

It really does help to keep moving your chiller up and down in the wort, that way you keep the wort moving around the chiller. I usually can chill about 5.5 gallons down to 72 degrees in about 14 minutes. And rapid chilling is what we want, right??Keep up the good tips everyone, we all can use a little new knowledge once in a while and I can say for myself that I have gleaned alot from all of thoses who contribute to the forum on a regular basis. Thanks all!!
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Cardboard Flavors

Postby Hodca » Wed Feb 06, 2002 6:26 pm

I thought of moving the chiller around although I was informed that it would create cardboard flavors.
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Oxydation?

Postby andytv » Thu Feb 07, 2002 2:59 am

I can't remember for sure, are "cardboard flavors" a result of oxydation of the wort? If thats the case, I supposed moving the chiller would increase the likelihood of introducing house air into the wort, but I really don't move the chiller that vigorously. Good news is that we haven't had any off flavors in our beers since we started this practice, and I couldn't imagine waiting for the wort to chill w/o stirring the batch. I would still recommend moving the chiller to anybody having trouble chilling. Good luck.
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Couterflow Chiller....

Postby Mesa Maltworks » Thu Feb 07, 2002 10:23 am

As long as your water temperature is cool enough, you may try what I used at home... a counter-flow wort chiller. It is a "tube within a tube" where hot wort flows in one direction while cold water flows in the other to acomplish very rapid heat exchange. It took me ~17 minutes for a 10 gallon batch when my water temperature was in the 50s to chill to the appropriate pitch temperature of 70 degrees (for ales only). The reason you need to shoot for 70 degrees is that when the yeast are in full fermentation the wort temperature can raise as much as 12 degrees. If you start at 80, you can possibly hit 92 F. Anything above 78 degrees as a fermentation temperature will cause the yeast to produce fusal alcohols that may provide a vinuous contribution to the beer's flavor profile. Worse, it is these alcohols that can cause crushing headaches !
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Oxygen ingress during wort chilling...

Postby Mesa Maltworks » Thu Feb 07, 2002 10:30 am

Actually, what occurs if oxygen enters into pre or post chilled wort is oxidation that can cause wort darkening, not oxidation that results in beer staling. The reason is that this oxygen is absorbed by the yeast in their pre-reproduction phase and any excess (very rare) is blown off by the carbon dioxide. The oxidation that reveals itself as cardboard, paper ... etc... flavors in beer after package is contributed only by oxygen introduced AFTER fermentation is terminal. Exposing the packaged beer to excessive heat will accelerate this reaction once the beer is sealed.
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I never noticed that

Postby dartedplus » Thu Feb 07, 2002 7:14 pm

I never notices that the temp increased when the wort was in full fermentation. Also, I didn't know that those nasty fusal alcohols were produced above 78 degrees. Dont want that hangover stuff in my beer.
thanks
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concerning the CF chiller

Postby dartedplus » Thu Feb 07, 2002 7:16 pm

in regards to the CF chiller, how long of a stretch of hose/tube do you need for the hot wort and the cold water to be running next to each other for it to be effective???
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CF Chiller Length

Postby BillyBock » Fri Feb 08, 2002 3:28 am

I made one back in November with about 25' of 3/8" copper tube. It works like a charm. Using cold kitchen tap water and siphoning with no flow restriction, it chills boiling wort down to 70F as soon as it hits the fermenter. You can chill it down closer to the temp. of the chilling water (40F-60F?) if you use more tubing or slow down the flow of wort. It is possible to chill it too much; so you need to be careful with that variable or your ale yeasts might not like you. CF chillers are also advantageous if you brew outdoors--you can transfer your wort in a sealed system to prevent contamination from airborne nasties. If you're married this is key...domestic tranquility :-)
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Hardware

Postby dartedplus » Fri Feb 08, 2002 5:23 am

Is there any special hardware I'll need for the ends where the copper tubing goesinto the hose?
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It depends on the diameters/materials used...

Postby Mesa Maltworks » Fri Feb 08, 2002 6:38 am

My chiller is composed of 3/4" copper as the outer shell and has 1/4" stainless steel tubing as the inner loop. I let the wort flow by gravity through the stainless, but the water is circulating through the copper via connection to a hose bibb I installed under the sink. This way I can control BOTH flow rates and hit whatever temperature I want (within about 3 degrees of the water temperature). Using this method, the length of both loops are only about 10'. If you use copper as the inner loop it has to be much longer because copper provides poorer heat exchange than stainless steel. I think the average of those constructed by snaking 1/4" copper through a garden hose is about 20'. When doing CFC, try to use a hose adapter on your faucet or a hose bibb like I do, your throughput and convenience will be drastically improved since the water flow is under pressure and removes the heat much faster when you balance the flow. (heat exchange 101 !)
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