Force Carbonation

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Force Carbonation

Postby river water brewing » Mon Oct 12, 2009 12:11 am

so i listened to this past week's brew strong pod cast and it was very informitive regarding setting up a keg system and getting the perfect pour. i havd had issues with this for some time with my system. one thing they did not talk about is what steps they took prior to seting the psi to the correct setting for the level of carbonation needed for the beer syle.

I have heard of several ideas, anything from: turning the psi up to 30 and rolling or shaking the keg for 5-10 minutes then leave to settele for 8hrs or so then turn psi down to the level of carbonation required for the beer style. , another process i have heard is to set the psi to 18-20 psi leave in fridge for 3-5 days then turn psi down to the level of carbonation required for the beer style.

any other ideas out there? any thoughts about the practices above?
JG
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Bracketing

Postby brewmeisterintng » Mon Oct 12, 2009 1:10 pm

Back in my military days... that was how we called in fire missions. It is a process of getting in the general area and adding/ subtracting to get rounds on target.
That’s what a bunch of brewers do trying to get the "correct" level of CO2.
The "easy" method is to set it and forget it. Use a chart to figure based on length of hose/ temperature and set the regulator accordingly. Next... wait until the brew has absorbed to the precise level you dialed... usually 5-7 days.
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Postby Suthrncomfrt1884 » Tue Oct 13, 2009 10:34 pm

I recently got into a conversation about this subject on another board. I'm also a fan of "set it and forget it", but I didn't realize some of the specifics.

Here's an illustration one of the other homebrewers showed me. Apparently he tested 3 different kegs to find out a definate answer to which method was the best.

Image

Now, as it shows, "set it and forget it" is obviously a better route. But, it also looks like regardless what you do, it will take 2-3 weeks for EVERY method to taste perfectly balanced. After thinking about it, I do notice that even if it's carbed at 1 week, it tastes MUCH better at 2-3.

Here's a link to the full thread incase anyone's interested in his full write-up.
Primary - Belgian Dubbel, Belgian IPA
Secondary - Cherry Lambic
Bottled - Bourbon Barrel Coffee Porter, Double Chocolate Raspberry Stout, Imperial Nut Brown, Apfelwein, American Amber Ale w/Homegrown Hops, Breakfast Stout
Kegged - Bass Clone, ESB
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Force carb pressure

Postby slothrob » Wed Oct 14, 2009 7:16 am

Suthern, what was the technique for the blue line? You seem to have forgotten the link..
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great graph, couple questions

Postby river water brewing » Wed Oct 14, 2009 1:42 pm

Suthrn,

great info thanks!!!

what is the ''CORRECT BURST" and what is the "POOR BURST", what do these methods entail?

and slothrob is right i think you forgot the link to the thred on this subject.

thank you all very much
JG
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Blue line

Postby brewmeisterintng » Wed Oct 14, 2009 6:16 pm

It represents dropping the pressure to 12ish psi's at the proper time as to not overshoot desired CO2 volume. The point that I am reading is regardless the road taken, three weeks on gas to make your beer taste it's best. I am still a "set it and forget it" guy.
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Postby Suthrncomfrt1884 » Mon Nov 02, 2009 10:29 am

Sorry about the late response...I don't visit the board very often as I've been fairly busy. I'll see if I can find the link again.

Anyhow... brewmeisterintng is correct.

The problem with force carbing a beer at 30psi is that you can sometimes overshoot your carbonation. Then you have to release pressure and start over. This is what was called a "poor burst". The "correct burst" is when you actually hit your mark on carbonation right from the get-go with the 30psi, which IMO is difficult to do perfectly.

The point of that graph is exactly as brewmeister had said. It shows that regardless what you do, it's going to take about 3 weeks for your beer to be at it's greatest. Now, this is assuming that you take a beer straight from primary and put it directly into your kegerator. If you force carb it at that point, it will still be a very young beer and not exactly ready to drink.

I'm also one for "set it and forget it".
Primary - Belgian Dubbel, Belgian IPA
Secondary - Cherry Lambic
Bottled - Bourbon Barrel Coffee Porter, Double Chocolate Raspberry Stout, Imperial Nut Brown, Apfelwein, American Amber Ale w/Homegrown Hops, Breakfast Stout
Kegged - Bass Clone, ESB
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Postby Suthrncomfrt1884 » Mon Nov 02, 2009 10:40 am

Primary - Belgian Dubbel, Belgian IPA
Secondary - Cherry Lambic
Bottled - Bourbon Barrel Coffee Porter, Double Chocolate Raspberry Stout, Imperial Nut Brown, Apfelwein, American Amber Ale w/Homegrown Hops, Breakfast Stout
Kegged - Bass Clone, ESB
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Follow up!!!

Postby river water brewing » Tue Jan 05, 2010 5:15 pm

Hello, so i have now done this process on 2 batches of beer with great success. perfect carbonation and its giving the beer enough time to age properly. Great info, thanks allot!!

Question, lets say you are doing a lager, or an alt like a kolsch that you will be allowing to "lager" at near freezing temps for a period of time. Would the 3 weeks that the beer is carbonating be effective as "lagering" time as well? see time line below

Active fermentation = 2 weeks
Time to settle yeast out = 1 week
Rack to keg and filter @ the 3 week mark
Force carbonate = 4 week (slightly longer due to it needing to "lager" for 4 weeks)

or would it still need to flow like this

Active fermentation = 2 weeks
Lager @ 33° = 4 weeks
Rack to keg and filter @ the 6 week mark
Force carbonate = 3 weeks

thanks again for sharing your thoughts.
JG
Just trying to find the perfect batch!!!
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Postby KingKeggerWA » Sat Apr 17, 2010 7:39 am

Not being a fan of force carbonation, as you've pointed out the brew is still too young to drink even if you've taken the time secondary and even lager. Why not save on gas, bulk prime after primary ferment, rack into keg including a little sediment (not too much though), top up and purge with co2, stick it in storage (cold or cool, cool or warm depending on brew trype) for 2-4 weeks or longer if you've been busy and made lots of beer, remove the first pint or two (do this before you move the keg - you've got lovely clear beer inside, don't disturb it!!),replace the co2, chill it and hey presto - mature, tasty and gently carbo's beer.... Remember the more you save on gas the more you spend on brewing.

GOod luck.
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There is no Spoon

Postby brewmeisterintng » Sat Apr 17, 2010 9:01 am

... from The Matrix
The elusive perfect brew does not exist. The brewer/ artist will always find a flaw (perceived or real) in every batch he makes. Others will tell you that "this batch is the greatest" but you will think... the color is off, it could have been a little clearer, it's a little sweet...
I am surprised that this thread keeps popping up. :wink: Some good stuff.
There are a lot of great ideas listed here but there is no one true answer... This is a hobby and I am having a blast making awesome brews. The bottom line is that I do it because I enjoy it... and the fruit of my labor. If others like what I have made (or not)... my palate is what I am trying to please.
I personally don't like porters or Irish reds so I don't brew them.
Our club president is a "Shake and Bake" guy. It's his beer and he does make some great ones so if he force carbonates differntly than I do... so be it.
Bottom line is brewers preference. :D
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Postby KingKeggerWA » Sat Apr 17, 2010 9:40 am

Couldn't agree with your sentiments more. If a perfect anything existed life would be bland at best. I like to find brewers who do things different to me - and I realise that carbonation is the near end of making a great beer - its all in the time, discipline, quality of ingredients and lets not forget cleanliness spent prior
To each his own and your spot on, please your own palete first, the rest of 'em can drink up whats on offer or bring their own. Ah the joy of brewing, the challenge of finding beer nirvana - love it.
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