Filtering during transfer to ferm.

Brewing processes and methods. How to brew using extract, partial or all-grain. Tips and tricks.

Moderator: slothrob

Filtering during transfer to ferm.

Postby kabbo » Wed Sep 05, 2007 11:01 pm

Hello,

I was wondering if it would be OK to cold-filter the beer between the kettle and the fermenter to reduce chill haze ? If so, should I use coarse filter pads ?

I was thinking of buying a
kabbo
Pale Ale
Pale Ale
 
Posts: 50
Joined: Sat Mar 11, 2006 1:46 pm

Postby ColoradoBrewer » Thu Sep 06, 2007 9:11 am

I've never used a filter to clarify beer, but a couple of things come to mind. Since you want to filter between the BK and the fermenter I assume you'll be pushing the wort with a pump. Not sure how that will affect the filter. I think the those that filter use kegs and the pressure of CO2 to push the beer, so a pump may have too much pressure and too much flow to work effectively with a filter. I seem to recall reading that too much of either can actually damage the filter. I'm not saying you should try it, and of course I could be wrong. One other thing, since you're coming from the BK it seem the trub would clog the filter rather quickly.

Another method to get rid of chill haze is the use of finings, such as gelatin or Polyclar. I've used gelatin and it works very well. The procedure is to chill the beer as cold as you can get it, prepare the gelatin per directions on the package and add it to the cold beer. In about 4-5 days the beer will be clear.
User avatar
ColoradoBrewer
Strong Ale
Strong Ale
 
Posts: 262
Joined: Tue Oct 24, 2006 11:32 am
Location: South of Denver, North of the Springs

Re: Filtering during transfer to ferm.

Postby brewer13210 » Thu Sep 06, 2007 9:35 am

kabbo wrote:Hello,

I was wondering if it would be OK to cold-filter the beer between the kettle and the fermenter to reduce chill haze ? If so, should I use coarse filter pads ?



Kabbo,

If your goal is to reduce chill haze, then unfortunately the method you've outlined won't work. In order to reduce chill haze, you need to chill the beer to the point where the proteins become insoluble in the wort (one of the reasons beer is cold filtered), and you'll need a fairly tight filter, because you're talking about removing proteins (which also removes flavor, sugars and color).

Do your beers really have a problem with chill haze?

Todd
brewer13210
Pale Ale
Pale Ale
 
Posts: 79
Joined: Wed Oct 25, 2006 12:06 pm
Location: La Fayette, NY, USA

Postby Push Eject » Thu Sep 06, 2007 12:52 pm

ColoradoBrewer wrote:The procedure is to chill the beer as cold as you can get it, prepare the gelatin per directions on the package and add it to the cold beer.


Be careful about this. If you boil the gelatin then add to the beer you're going to make beer jello. Here is a thread on this very subject: http://thebrewingnetwork.com/phpBB2/vie ... php?t=1731

Also, there are all sorts of factors that contribute to a beer's clarity. I suggest listening to the BN's show on fining your beer... Sunday Live Show 04-30-06

Cheers,
Push Eject
500mhz G3 iBook 384mg 10.3.9
2x1ghz G4 1g 10.4.10
2x2ghz G5 2g 10.4.10
User avatar
Push Eject
Double IPA
Double IPA
 
Posts: 233
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2001 2:01 pm
Location: Lancaster, CA, US

Postby ColoradoBrewer » Thu Sep 06, 2007 3:23 pm

You add the gelatin AFTER the beer is chilled, not in the boil. :roll:
User avatar
ColoradoBrewer
Strong Ale
Strong Ale
 
Posts: 262
Joined: Tue Oct 24, 2006 11:32 am
Location: South of Denver, North of the Springs

Postby Push Eject » Thu Sep 06, 2007 4:47 pm

ColoradoBrewer wrote:You add the gelatin AFTER the beer is chilled, not in the boil.

Correct.

To be clear. Do NOT prepare the gelatin as "per directions on the package" as ColoradoBrewer stated.

Just follow the above-mentioned thread and you'll be "fine" :) (pun intended).

Push Eject
500mhz G3 iBook 384mg 10.3.9
2x1ghz G4 1g 10.4.10
2x2ghz G5 2g 10.4.10
User avatar
Push Eject
Double IPA
Double IPA
 
Posts: 233
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2001 2:01 pm
Location: Lancaster, CA, US

Postby ColoradoBrewer » Thu Sep 06, 2007 5:23 pm

Well I have yet to make beer jello. And neither have any of the other brewers I know who do it like I do and bloom the gelatin first. So are you saying you just sprinkle the gelatin on the beer? If that works for ya, then great! That's one of the great things about this hobby; many ways to get great results.
User avatar
ColoradoBrewer
Strong Ale
Strong Ale
 
Posts: 262
Joined: Tue Oct 24, 2006 11:32 am
Location: South of Denver, North of the Springs

Postby Push Eject » Thu Sep 06, 2007 6:27 pm

ColoradoBrewer wrote:So are you saying you just sprinkle the gelatin on the beer?

Not at all. From the above mentioned thread:
I rack my beer into the keg and cool it down a few degrees below what I intend on serving it at. Let it stabilize at that temp for a day or two.

I boil 1/4 or so (give or take) cup of water and then let it cool down to 100 degrees. I sprinkle 1 tsp of unflavored gelatin on top of it when it has cooled down to 100. I let it dissolve (DO NOT STIR IT, YOU'LL BE SORRY). Once it's fully dissolved, I open my keg back up, pour the gelatin in the keg and seal it back up. I hit it with the CO2 to set the lid seal, then gently slosh it around a little. I put it back in the kegerator and raise the thermostat back to my serving temp. A few days later I pull the first pint and pour it in the bushes outside my kitchen door. After that it's all crystal clear.

This works whether it's carbonated or not. If it is carbonated when you add the gelatin it will foam up so don't dawdle around with the lid off. I've never needed to use polyclar, if I was going to use polyclar I wouldn't bother with gelatin and vice versa. Also with polyclar you probably should rack your beer off the sediment after a few days, polyclar is basically ground plastic and you really don't want to drink any of that should the sediment get resuspended.


Push E.
500mhz G3 iBook 384mg 10.3.9
2x1ghz G4 1g 10.4.10
2x2ghz G5 2g 10.4.10
User avatar
Push Eject
Double IPA
Double IPA
 
Posts: 233
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2001 2:01 pm
Location: Lancaster, CA, US

Postby ColoradoBrewer » Fri Sep 07, 2007 5:21 am

Thanks for the quote, PE. It looks like we may have had the same idea in mind all along. The method described in the quote is how I do it with one notable exception, I sprinkle the gelatin on the water and zap it in the the microwave for 40 seconds and then let it cool for a couple of minutes. Those are the directions on the box I was speaking of. I use the Kroger brand from the grocery store, if you are using a different brand maybe it has different directions.
User avatar
ColoradoBrewer
Strong Ale
Strong Ale
 
Posts: 262
Joined: Tue Oct 24, 2006 11:32 am
Location: South of Denver, North of the Springs

Postby Push Eject » Fri Sep 07, 2007 9:30 am

:)
500mhz G3 iBook 384mg 10.3.9
2x1ghz G4 1g 10.4.10
2x2ghz G5 2g 10.4.10
User avatar
Push Eject
Double IPA
Double IPA
 
Posts: 233
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2001 2:01 pm
Location: Lancaster, CA, US

Postby kabbo » Fri Sep 07, 2007 7:32 pm

Thanks for the replies guys.

Colorado: I have ball valves everywhere to control flow rate, and I'll have a
kabbo
Pale Ale
Pale Ale
 
Posts: 50
Joined: Sat Mar 11, 2006 1:46 pm

Postby BillyBock » Fri Sep 07, 2007 7:57 pm

As long as the haze isn't from unconverted starch or an infection, time and cold work wonders for beer clarity. If you can manage it, cold condition your brews near freezing. This will cause the chill haze components to come out of suspension and with time gravity will pull them to the bottom of the bottle or keg. I do this religiously with every brew--I cold condition at 28F for a minimum of one month normally--ales or lagers. I've had some beers start with haze, but after this regimen they were crystal clear.

The other options are to let the beer warm up, or drink from an opaque glass :D
BillyBock
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 561
Joined: Sun Dec 31, 2000 12:37 pm
Location: Ohio

Postby Push Eject » Fri Sep 07, 2007 8:29 pm

kabbo wrote:I also recently have carbonation problems, and complete fermentation in 5 days (3 weeks in secondary and no gravity drop). Maybe this is because of high temp ferm (it is about 80F+ in my appartment...)

Why are you doing a secondary? Unless you have a good reason, you may just be adding to your bacteria load and oxidizing your beer.

In my opinion the number one thing you can do to improve your beer is not clarify it, but achieve temperature control during your fermentation, Kabbo. A temp-controlled fridge or freezer, a big tub of water and ice, even a big cooler with frozen water bottles.

Cheers.
500mhz G3 iBook 384mg 10.3.9
2x1ghz G4 1g 10.4.10
2x2ghz G5 2g 10.4.10
User avatar
Push Eject
Double IPA
Double IPA
 
Posts: 233
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2001 2:01 pm
Location: Lancaster, CA, US

Postby ColoradoBrewer » Sat Sep 08, 2007 7:56 am

kabbo wrote:Colorado:...Also, do you think the bazooka screen will filter enough to prevent cloging the pump's diaphragm ?
What kind of pump are you using? If it's the March 809 series that is common in homebrew set-ups I don't think you'll have any problems with clogging.

kabbo wrote:And since I'm setting a recirculating system, I'll be recirculating the mash with the pump. Do you know of a in-line filter or something to prevent clogging the pump ?
Since you'll be recirculating during the mash, a filter is unnecessary. The grain bed will be your filter.
User avatar
ColoradoBrewer
Strong Ale
Strong Ale
 
Posts: 262
Joined: Tue Oct 24, 2006 11:32 am
Location: South of Denver, North of the Springs

Postby kabbo » Sat Sep 08, 2007 11:28 am

Thanks,

Colorado :
I'm using the March MDXT3 (very similar to the 809), and thought of buying an inlet filter such as Shurflo's one :http://www.williamsbrewing.com/SHURFLO_PUMP_INLET_STRAINER_P1883.cfm

Push Eject:
I'll have an automatic temp controller in my new system. Basically, a pump controlled by a Ranco temp controller wich recirculates cold or hot water into a 50ft copper tubing coil inside the fermenter, keeping the temp in a narrow 1F range.
I'll see if it helps.

BillyBock:
Do you cold condition right after bottling ? That doesn't make ale yeast inactive for carbonation ?
I'm interrested in your technique.
Also, what do you mean by unconverted starch ? Do you mean adjuncts sugars and proteins, or could it be a problem with my mash schedule ? I used to lack patience for reciruclation before sparging, in my old system, resulting in cloudy runoffs. I also used to stir the mash every 15 minutes. But in my system, it'll be automatic and recirculates all mash schedule long (in and out...)

Thanks.
kabbo
Pale Ale
Pale Ale
 
Posts: 50
Joined: Sat Mar 11, 2006 1:46 pm

Next

Return to Techniques, Methods, Tips & How To

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest