Fining and filtering Q

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Fining and filtering Q

Postby jayhawk » Sun May 23, 2004 8:06 pm

I want to get the yeast out of my beer. I have found that transporting my kegs to parties causes the yeast to get stirred up, which affects the flavour a little too much, especially when I am introducing the beer to people unitiated in the ways of homebrew.

I have read up a little on fining and I am leaning towards using bentonite (want to avoid animal products in the beer b/c some of my consumers are vegan). Fining itself seems straightforward, but my problem is that I have no way of keeping my kegs/fermenters chilled (I use a jockey box). I can chill them down to a cool temp initially with an ice bath, but I am not able to hold them there for a prolonged period. Would this affect the ability of the finings to do the job and/or slow the settling of the finings?

Second point: if fining is not possible due to my temp control limitations, then filtering is the next logical procedure to explore. What type of setup would be adequate to remove the yeast from suspension? Would a yeast filter remove flavour/mouthfeel character from the beer, or is that only a concern when haze is trying to be eliminated?

Please post any fining/filtering experience too.Thanks for any feedback.


Chris
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May have found the answer

Postby jayhawk » Mon May 24, 2004 6:03 pm

Did a search on Google and found this:

"Agar agar (from seaweed) has stronger setting properties and, unlike gelatine which requires refrigeration to set, it will set at room temperature after about an hour..."

"Powdered agar agar can be substituted for the same quantity of powdered gelatine in a recipe"

and:

"Agar-agar is a good fining agent, but can be very expensive. Gelatin works just as well and is cheap."

So it looks like I can use agar-agar as I would gelatin, but without having to worry about chilling the beer.

I will experiment with this and post an update for anyone who is interested.
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Jayhawk

Postby fitz » Tue May 25, 2004 8:00 am

Do you use a secondary?
If you could find a way to chill it enough to force carbonate, you shouldn't need the fining agent.
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Carbonation

Postby jayhawk » Tue May 25, 2004 10:00 am

I use a carboy for the secondary. I have been able to force carb my beer in my kegs no problem, even with no refrigeration. I want to be able to drop all the yeast out of suspension in the secondary prior to transferring to the keg for carbonation. As it stands now, I end up with a small yeast cake in the keg, even after a two week secondary stage in a carboy. The keg yeast cake causes problems when I transport the kegs around because it gets re-mixed into suspension and affects the taste of the beer.
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Someone

Postby fitz » Tue May 25, 2004 10:04 am

I think it was Billy Bock, but someone just got and tried a filter system. Check the threads for the past month. I believe he was well satisfied of the outcome.
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Thanks

Postby jayhawk » Tue May 25, 2004 10:58 am

That is a good filtering thread. Thanks for the heads up.

Good brewing
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Jockey Box

Postby fitz » Tue May 25, 2004 11:03 am

Did you build your own, or purchase your cold plate/jockey box.
That is a great Idea for picnics, and was wanting plans or ideas.
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Box idea

Postby jayhawk » Tue May 25, 2004 2:38 pm

My jockey box is still a work in progress, and I have all the pieces but have not got around to putting it together. (Ice bath for the keg is getting me through temporarily). What I have is a styrofoam cooler (cheap, even free if you keep your eyes peeled), some copper pipe (hoping 15' will be enough), a bar tap and tap handle, some restrictor hose for the product line. I still need to get a shank or some connector to connect the copper pipe to the shank. I am going to be building a nice wooden box and lid that will disguise the styrofoam cooler (ie stryo cooler will be an insert for the box), and then I can stain the box or paint it up nice. The copper pipe will be inside the cooler bathed in ice and the product line will connect this pipe to the keg. Voila!
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two things

Postby fitz » Wed May 26, 2004 7:35 am

here are two alterations I would use in your design.
1) use more than 15 feet of line
15 feet would be a minimum since you are young, and so are your friends, there will definitely be a quick refill, 15 feet will probably be too slow of a turn around for cooling.
2) Make sure you run a drain line through the wooden box, with enough of a tail to get the water away from it. The water will make that nice wooden box a mess in a hurry even with marine grade stain.
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Good points

Postby jayhawk » Wed May 26, 2004 1:25 pm

thanks for the unput fitz. Cheers!
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Stop jumping over dollars to pick up pennies

Postby bigdosgood » Wed Jun 02, 2004 1:26 am

Dude, it is too easy to set up the real thing! By the time you get all of that other stuff,"made to fit" you can just get the real thing. A roll of copper tubing is what? 10 bucks? slow down, look around, there is probably a better way!
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From the seller of Jockey boxes

Postby fitz » Wed Jun 02, 2004 8:52 am

Info from the jockey box sites are:

1) 50 to 75 feet of copper or stainless tubing if thed keg is already cilled
If keg isn't chilled 125 to 150 feet of line.

2)Ice by itself won't work well, use ice and water in the box
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re: ?Stop jumping over dollars to pick up pennies?:

Postby jayhawk » Thu Jun 03, 2004 11:32 pm

I am a little confused as to what you are talking about. If you are referring to my jockey box design then please be aware that I am not sourcing my own box materials just for the sake of saving some coin. For me homebrewing is not only about brewing, but also about creating a unique system and components. The jockey box will have as much character as the beer I make, and I am not interested in simply having a big orange/blue/green cooler dispensing the beer. Got it?
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I understand

Postby bigdosgood » Fri Jun 04, 2004 2:07 am

Hey dude, believe me, I have built all of my stuff too. That isn't what I meant. I mean simply don't cut costs so much that you end up with something that doesn't work. I know, I bought a brew kettle, a 15.5 keg with the top cut, I paid $20 for it because it was bent on the bottom. Later, I found a buddy that will cut one for me free and a keg only costs $40! The bent one wobbles, is ugly, and I now feel a bit dumb! The same kettle is like $100 anywhere else, so, knowing what I know now, I jumped over dollors to pick up pennies! Also, I have built a lot of stuff, don't hold back, spend what it takes to build it right! My homebrew club meets regularly and at least one brings a corny, we just ice it down. Same amount of ice, same headache, it is just preferance. I paid $125 for a Corona Ice chest, a wooden one that looks cool,has a metal liner, is well insulated, etc. I was going to do the same thing with it! I use now it to let others ice down the "fizzy yellow swill" that they bring to my house! Good Luck and Happy Homebrewing!
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maybe try stainless?

Postby massls » Sat Jul 10, 2004 12:36 am

Hi. I've built several jockey boxes for use/sale and they have included plastic tubing, copper tubing, stainless tubing and aluminum cooling blocks. The plastic is way cheaper, like $8 for 50 ft at Home Depot/Lowe's, copper tubing not far behind at like $30 for 50 ft, and stainless is hard to find and about 3X the cost of copper. However, plastic does not give great heat-exchange results (beer comes out cool, not ice cold in heavy use). Copper can give a slight off taste (oxidation). If you want the best results, use stainless steel tubing or an aluminum chill plate. The plates are great if the keg is cold to start with, but for a summer picnic, a 100 ft tight coil of stainless steel tubing is the premium product. You will spend a few more dollars but your cold pint on the hot beach will make it all worth it.
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