Feature Requests Archive A

Suggestions and discussion about upcoming features in future BeerTools Pro releases.
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Post by Brant »

Re percentages: That wasn't one of my better feature suggestions. It has a lot of whiz bang, but probably not enough usefulness to be worth it. I guess the best feature it would provide is a quick way to drag the mass of a grain higher and lower quickly, but without much usefulness for entering grains as percentages. For the record, I had already typed two (unsubmitted) messages that morning saying that I couldn't envision a good interface for entering the grain bill in percentages, before that stroke of lightning hit me (in the face! ;) ). Still, I'll repeat that I think that a final grain bill represented in percentages looks great in the software (and is already an available feature, by the way), but that entering the grain bill that way would result in some goofy math (and potential interface ugliness) while the percentages don't add up to 100.

Re features and priorities: Only #1 of Bill's seems useful to me and my brewing style, but it wouldn't be a priority for me (no offense intended!). Slothrob's environment (ambient temp and cooler temp) idea would be my #1. And my #2 would be to do something to indicate in the schedule what the current vessel is, along with a way to configure the source and destination vessels in the Transfer step (to fix my decoction problem, whose thread below sadly remains unanswered...). Frankly, I can work around the (very few!) minor inconveniences in BTP, but those two can have a big impact on my brew day and its resulting beer. And if I can dream, then support for a turbid mash schedule would be on the horizon -- and maybe simply being able to configure the source and destination vessels of the transfer would provide that...
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Post by just-cj »

slothrob wrote:Maybe what the community really needs is an alert that appears whenever anyone tries to enter more than 10% combined crystal malts :lol:

"Are you REALLY sure you want to do that?!?"
HELL YEAH!!! And if it's over 20%, the alert can read:
"I'm sorry, I can't let you do that!" :P
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Clarification

Post by billvelek »

When I listed my three suggestions, they were not intended to be a list of what is most important to me, but rather what I thought were eventually needed and would probably be very simple to fix. As for priorities on what is needed, an inventory feature that interfaces with ingredient selection is my number one pick. I can't see how every single one of us wouldn't find that to be very useful unless a user just goes to the local homebrew shop and buys everything needed for one batch at a time. I'm sure most of us have an assortment of grains, hops, and yeast. But implementing a good inventory feature is probably right up there in difficulty with other MAJOR suggestions such as:
a session feature
a fermentation tab
an improved carbonation tab that interfaces with a carbonation database per beer style
a yeast pitching calculator

But then, we're not in a competition for who made/makes the best suggestion, and we all benefit to some degree from every improvement, even if it just helps to make the program more popular to build a larger user base.

Cheers.

Bill Velek
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Post by Brant »

From a message Lathe posted last night, it looks like Inventory and Session recording are being actively worked on, which is really cool! I'd definitely make use of those features, and I look forward to seeing them. I think they will have more appeal to more users than my requested decoction (or turbid mash) improvements, and I guess other people are having better luck than I am maintaining the hardcoded ambient temperature of 68 in their breweries. My requested priorities are based on the difficulty/accuracy of the required workarounds, rather than what I think might be easy to implement. The workaround for Session Recording is to type that info in the Notes text field, and the workaround for Inventory is to walk into the brewery (garage) and look -- neither workaround is appealing, but at least both are 100% accurate. The workarounds for my mash schedule woes require more thought and planning to compensate for. That's why my list was what it was. However, I fully understand features that are wanted by the most users need to be the top priority.
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Re: Clarification

Post by slothrob »

billvelek wrote: a session feature
a fermentation tab
an improved carbonation tab that interfaces with a carbonation database per beer style
a yeast pitching calculator
and Inventory usable by the Ingredients Browser

Bill, that's a good summary list of the Big projects, widely requested and of broad utility.
I just wanted to refocus the feature discussion, hopefully to help Jeff and Lathe. We've talked about a lot of things and I didn't want anything big to get lost in the shuffle. A little prioritization by the users might help their focus, as well.

Your short list of easy features are more of a personal set that wouldn't be as useful to me, but might be crucial for somebody, that's for the developers to weigh. Percentage adjustments are one I would use sometimes, but I see it as a leather vs. vinyl seats option when buying a car. Nice to have, but it doesn't really change MY life much, partly because I tend to work within a narrow OG range, and I have some feel for what 0.5# of Crystal means at that OG. I know that a lot of people design recipes by percent, so it would be an important feature to them.

Some of my pet features, some of which might not be possible, are:
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IBU contribution by FWH

Post by billvelek »

I don't really know, but I would have assumed that IBU contribution for First Wort Hopping would be the same as just a full 60 minute boil with bittering hops. I say that because hop utilization seems to level off after about an hour of boiling, so the fact that they've been in the wort from the time of runnings until the boil starts (which might not extract any alpha acids anyway since it isn't boiling yet), as well as the extra boil time before you'd ordinarily pitch your bittering hops, ... wouldn't really change the amount of utilization, would it? I don't really know, but that's just a thought. ... And if that is fairly correct, then I'd imagine you'd just indicate the full boil time for those hops on your ingredient's schedule, but with a remark in the notes section for posterity that you had actually added them during runnings. Now, if you're using a hop bag and pulling it out after sparging and before the boil, I suppose that is a different case, but that seems like such a waste of hops.

Cheers.

Bill Velek

Note to Jeff and Lathe: a SMALL thing is that when a user exits from BTP, then ALL of the BTP windows should close; currently the non-session windows remain open and must be closed individually. No big deal though.
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Post by slothrob »

That's a common misconception, Bill.
First Wort Hops add about the same IBU as a normal 20' addition for a 60' boil. It has something to do with a difference in the isomerization during the steep prior to boiling. This stabilizes the flavor compounds, but reduces the bittering ones. Some find they get a bit more IBU depending on differences in individual FWH technique. For example, I believe I get a bit more with a 90' boil than a 60' boil.

Now, I type FWH in as FWH, but list them as a 20' or 30' boil depending on boil length. This works, but the problem is that the Ingredient Display then lists them as going in at 20' with no indication of FWH unless you highlight the individual hop addition. Because of this, it's easy to forget that I intended to add them as FWH if there is significant time between the recipe creation and the brew day and there's no obvious indication that I intended FWH.

So, I'd actually be content with the way it works now if I just had an indication of FWH in the Ingrediants Display.
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I have excellent news for you, Slothrob

Post by billvelek »

slothrob wrote:That's a common misconception, Bill.
First Wort Hops add about the same IBU as a normal 20' addition for a 60' boil. It has something to do with a difference in the isomerization during the steep prior to boiling. This stabilizes the flavor compounds, but reduces the bittering ones. Some find they get a bit more IBU depending on differences in individual FWH technique. For example, I believe I get a bit more with a 90' boil than a 60' boil.

I have to admit that I don't know hardly a thing about the science behind utilization, and although the basic formula for utilization tops out at 25%, there are a half dozen other formulas that differ. Logically, they can't all be correct, and I don't know which one is ... so I just use the 'basic' formula. When using that, BTP indicates no difference whatsoever between a 60 and a 90 minute boil, and it also doesn't indicate any difference for FWH.
snip ... So, I'd actually be content with the way it works now if I just had an indication of FWH in the Ingrediants Display.
GOOD NEWS!!! Highlight your hops within the ingredient display, select 'Edit', and change the name to add "-- FWH" behind it. Save your recipe and print it. The ingredient list will now at least have that indication behind the name. Start a new recipe and use the browse hops and select the same hops; miraculously, the name is the original without the 'FWH' addition to it. At least that's how it seems to be working for me so far ... but I've got to get back to my brewing right now. This is super cool.

Cheers.

Bill Velek
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Post by slothrob »

Nice simple work-around. Never occurred to me.

The FWH utilization is certainly not without debate. I know of at least one experiment going on now to try and more precisely define its effect. But, this is why the utilization requires flexibility.

Thanks for the hint and good luck with the brew, just finished bottling, myself.
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Slothrob, ... help me ...

Post by billvelek »

Rather than continue this FWH subject here, where it is a bit off-topic, I've started a new thread in the "Brewing Problems, Emergencies, Help" thread ... and I need help QUICK ... if anyone can answer within the next half hour.

Thanks.

Bill Velek
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nice feature i would like to see

Post by warthog »

i brewed yesterday, and as i brewed, i was thinking about how i would like to be able to use btp.

it would be nice if the schedule would give me the strike temp, and time estimates for tap water to strike temp given the heating vessel (right there in the schedule page). same for sparging, and bringing wort to boil.

it would be nice if there were a timing feature (i've mentioned this one before). say i open a recipe in "brew session mode" and i hit "start", ding when its close to the time my water is to temp etc. i want to have all of that info on one screen, instead of having to open a calculator, re-enter all the info (it seems to retain whatever was last calculated (which is good, unless i was last in a different recipe).
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Whoah there, Wart Hog, whoooah. Slow down ;-)

Post by billvelek »

Please don't take offense, because I mean none. As I've said before, everyone is entitled to their own opinions, preferences, methods, etc. And I know that many of my suggestions haven't been the best, most useful, or most needed either. But I think Jeff and Lathe have been just about buried alive in new feature requests, suggested improvements to existing features, documentation needs, and just downright bugs, ... so much so that I hate to see all of us act like kids in a candy store, going crazy and asking for everything in sight. Admittedly, both of your suggestions would lengthen the list of BTP features, certainly would have some use to some people, and might even match features on other programs although I'm not sure how 'necessary' they are; let's take a look at them to try to prioritize them in case Jeff and Lathe can manage to fit these on their list.
it would be nice if the schedule would give me the strike temp, and time estimates for tap water to strike temp given the heating vessel (right there in the schedule page). same for sparging, and bringing wort to boil.
The schedule currently does give you strike temp, but AFAIK it doesn't give any time estimates for heating water. First, I would think that variables in this area (your choice of HLT, burner, tap water temp, and ambient temp) really won't vary THAT much, will they? Unless you're using a hose outside, I'd presume that most of us use the hot water tap to speed getting up to temp, and most hot water tanks are usually pretty consistent in temp (unless someone has just used all the hot water). I can see the ambient temp changing if you happen to do this outside, but otherwise I'd think that there would be enough consistency in such factors that you could simply make a note in your log as a reminder (or even remember it just roughly) of how long it takes to heat your water. Maybe it's just because I have extra pots, but personally the first thing I do on brew day is fill my HLT with hot water from the faucet and turn the burner on to bring it to a boil, and I don't care about the temp or need any exact timings except for the infusions and sparging printed on my schedule. My method is to blend my water; admittedly, I haven't used bottled or RO water yet, which would require a different approach. By blending, I mean that I take a 2-quart pot and use it as a ladle to dip boiling water from my HLT into a 5 gallon pot to which I also add cold water from my faucet; stir and measure temp until it is very close to the temp I need, and then quickly ladle out excess until it is about the right height. I use a very thin stainless steel ruler (practically no displacement) to measure the height in my 5-gallon pot., where each 2 inches is equal ... almost exactly ... to one gallon, so 1/16"=4 ounces. I make final adjustments in temp and height very quickly and easily, and then dump the 5-gallon pot into my tun. I guess I could go to the added trouble of dumping it into a large measuring cup first, if I wanted to get accurate down to the very last ounce. Anyway, my method is easy, and allows me to use boiling water for all of my target temps. My water always gets hot enough quickly enough for me to use it for all of my additions as soon as they are needed.
it would be nice if there were a timing feature (i've mentioned this one before). say i open a recipe in "brew session mode" and i hit "start", ding when its close to the time my water is to temp etc. i want to have all of that info on one screen, instead of having to open a calculator, re-enter all the info (it seems to retain whatever was last calculated (which is good, unless i was last in a different recipe).
Personally, I think this is another 'bells and whistles' type thing; I'd probably use it if available, but I can very easily live without it and would hope that Jeff and Lathe would put this toward the bottom, if on their list. I have a very cheap digital timer that I bought for just a few bucks, and the battery lasts forever. I usually use it's clip/stand to attach it to my shirt pocket so that I'll always have it with me to hear it go off -- even if I'm in the bathroom or on the telephone. When I do a double batch and am mashing at the same time as boiling, I use another one just like it. I have them marked #1 and #2 so that I don't get them confused, although I generally only have one clipped to my pocket at a time. If I'm wearing a T-shirt, I clip it to my belt. In doing it this way, you aren't tied down to your computer; on the other hand, if you want to sit at your computer while your kettle boils outside or your mash continues in the kitchen, you are free to do so. And if your computer crashes or the power goes off, you haven't lost your timer.

Just my two cents. Again, no offense intended.

Cheers.

Bill Velek
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Post by slothrob »

The one thing is that Mash Temperature, but not Strike Temperature, is displayed in the Schedule display, but I need to know both. I just open the edit window for the Mash In step to get the Strike Temperature, but that's annoying when my hands are wet or sticky.
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Post by warthog »

slothrob wrote:The one thing is that Mash Temperature, but not Strike Temperature, is displayed in the Schedule display, but I need to know both. I just open the edit window for the Mash In step to get the Strike Temperature, but that's annoying when my hands are wet or sticky.
that's what i'm talking about 8)
i'd like to have the strike temp displayed on the schedule. if also in the schedule, i could input my tap water temp heating would be just another step on the schedule.


i know jeff and lathe are busy, (they have done a phenomenal job imho) and the program is already feature rich. my desire is to brew right from the recipe while multi-tasking (i have 2 young kids, if i can't multi-task, beer won't happen).

btw, i am not offended. i am curious however, as to why you feel that there should be no more feature requests. if jeff and lathe were no longer interested in this subject, either of them could just lock the thread, or make an announcement, that the subject is closed. no offense intended.
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Post by jctull »

I have to second (or third as I asked for this in a prior post) the request for an alarm. Yes, I have a clock in my brewery, but why bother with a timer when I have a computer connected to some speakers playing tunes while I brew that also happens to be running BTP? This is about requesting things that make sense to those who want them, so not everyone is expected to find them equally worthwhile. But it does not make much sense for us to be trying to prioritize the feature requests.

I have faith that the programmers are making a list and deciding for themselves what is important. No reason to stifle the requests from people that have ideas different from one's own. (Also, no offense intended; just making a point.)

Also, the strike temperature in the mash schedule is quite important for me as well.
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