New Batch Sparge Feature... Where's first runnings?
New Batch Sparge Feature... Where's first runnings?
Just when I got used to the way it used to be
Of course, everyone argued that Fly and Batch should be vastly different and complained of the lack of presets (I still think presets should be there) but I digress. The major flaw I currently see is NOT being able to drain the first runnings (the available wort as strike minus grain absorbtion). How do I accomplish this prior to the "new batch sparge"?
In the old system, the first separation would be Zero infused, all runoff, no residual. I know some batch spargers infuse prior to runoff (call it a mashout if you want to), but I don't and won't.
I set my schedule to:
1. Mash In
2. Sac Rest
3. xxxxxx missing first runnings xxxxxxx
4. Batch sparge half volume
5. Batch sparge second half volume
Of course, everyone argued that Fly and Batch should be vastly different and complained of the lack of presets (I still think presets should be there) but I digress. The major flaw I currently see is NOT being able to drain the first runnings (the available wort as strike minus grain absorbtion). How do I accomplish this prior to the "new batch sparge"?
In the old system, the first separation would be Zero infused, all runoff, no residual. I know some batch spargers infuse prior to runoff (call it a mashout if you want to), but I don't and won't.
I set my schedule to:
1. Mash In
2. Sac Rest
3. xxxxxx missing first runnings xxxxxxx
4. Batch sparge half volume
5. Batch sparge second half volume
Bobby_M on Homebrewtalk.com
HP DV9200 Laptop, Intel T5500, 2 Gig RAM, Windows Vista, 17" widescreen display at 1440 x 900 and 32 colors.
my youtube vids: www.youtube.com/bobbyfromnj
HP DV9200 Laptop, Intel T5500, 2 Gig RAM, Windows Vista, 17" widescreen display at 1440 x 900 and 32 colors.
my youtube vids: www.youtube.com/bobbyfromnj
Re: New Batch Sparge Feature... Where's first runnings?
First runnings is entered as your first sparge without any water added. Enter it along with your other batches in the batch sparge editor. BTP will calculate absorption automatically.Bobby_M wrote:Just when I got used to the way it used to be
Of course, everyone argued that Fly and Batch should be vastly different and complained of the lack of presets (I still think presets should be there) but I digress. The major flaw I currently see is just being able to drain the first runnings (the available wort as strike minus grain absorbtion). How do I accomplish this prior to the "new batch sparge"?
Jeff
BeerTools.com Staff
BeerTools.com Staff
So far so good. One question though.
I do things almost the same except I do:
1. Mash in @ 1.25 qt/lb
2. Sac rest
3. Batch Sparge
4. Infusion of water to equal remaining wort needed, @ a temp set to equalize mash @ 170
5. Second batch sparge
For step #4, I was going to use an infusion step, but it does not seem to work. If I know I need 10.5 more gallons, I enter in 10.5 gallons in the 'Water Volume' field, but it blanks it out as soon as I move away from the field. If I instead change the 'Infusion Rate' to something like 2.0, (trying to get it to equal 10 gallons), the 'Water Volume' still stays at 0.
User error or bug?
Thanks,
Greg
I do things almost the same except I do:
1. Mash in @ 1.25 qt/lb
2. Sac rest
3. Batch Sparge
4. Infusion of water to equal remaining wort needed, @ a temp set to equalize mash @ 170
5. Second batch sparge
For step #4, I was going to use an infusion step, but it does not seem to work. If I know I need 10.5 more gallons, I enter in 10.5 gallons in the 'Water Volume' field, but it blanks it out as soon as I move away from the field. If I instead change the 'Infusion Rate' to something like 2.0, (trying to get it to equal 10 gallons), the 'Water Volume' still stays at 0.
User error or bug?
Thanks,
Greg
What's in your recipe?orion2598 wrote:So far so good. One question though.
I do things almost the same except I do:
1. Mash in @ 1.25 qt/lb
2. Sac rest
3. Batch Sparge
4. Infusion of water to equal remaining wort needed, @ a temp set to equalize mash @ 170
5. Second batch sparge
For step #4, I was going to use an infusion step, but it does not seem to work. If I know I need 10.5 more gallons, I enter in 10.5 gallons in the 'Water Volume' field, but it blanks it out as soon as I move away from the field. If I instead change the 'Infusion Rate' to something like 2.0, (trying to get it to equal 10 gallons), the 'Water Volume' still stays at 0.
User error or bug?
Thanks,
Greg
Jeff
BeerTools.com Staff
BeerTools.com Staff
BTW, I can get things to work if I use a second batch sparge, but I really liked the idea of BTP telling me what temp my infusion had to be at with x amount of water to bring the 150 degree mash up to 170. Don't think the batch sparge does that (but I could be wrong). It says 10.5 gallons @ 180 degrees, but that sounds a little low to me.
Ok, I see it now. BTP assumes that all the grain has been separated from the extract after a sparge step. When you insert your infusion, there is no grist on which to base the grist ratio. You will have to work your infusion into a batch sparge in some way. You may be able to utilize the Window->Calculators->Mash->Infusion tool to help know how much water to add.orion2598 wrote:So far so good. One question though.
I do things almost the same except I do:
1. Mash in @ 1.25 qt/lb
2. Sac rest
3. Batch Sparge
4. Infusion of water to equal remaining wort needed, @ a temp set to equalize mash @ 170
5. Second batch sparge
For step #4, I was going to use an infusion step, but it does not seem to work. If I know I need 10.5 more gallons, I enter in 10.5 gallons in the 'Water Volume' field, but it blanks it out as soon as I move away from the field. If I instead change the 'Infusion Rate' to something like 2.0, (trying to get it to equal 10 gallons), the 'Water Volume' still stays at 0.
User error or bug?
Thanks,
Greg
Jeff
BeerTools.com Staff
BeerTools.com Staff
I have to say that I have no idea what your step #4 is. The "sparge" step IS an infusion and each batch sparge step has a temperature input. I runoff my mash, then use 180-185F sparge water. The first sparge infusion gets me to 163, second to 169F. This pic here is when you use 180F instead but you get the idea.orion2598 wrote:BTW, I can get things to work if I use a second batch sparge, but I really liked the idea of BTP telling me what temp my infusion had to be at with x amount of water to bring the 150 degree mash up to 170. Don't think the batch sparge does that (but I could be wrong). It says 10.5 gallons @ 180 degrees, but that sounds a little low to me.
I now unerstand that unlike the previous separation steps in 1.029, each box in the batch sparge window is looking for infusion info, but assumes a full runoff after each (just like every batch spprger does). Good stuff... no micro managing residuals, etc.
Bobby_M on Homebrewtalk.com
HP DV9200 Laptop, Intel T5500, 2 Gig RAM, Windows Vista, 17" widescreen display at 1440 x 900 and 32 colors.
my youtube vids: www.youtube.com/bobbyfromnj
HP DV9200 Laptop, Intel T5500, 2 Gig RAM, Windows Vista, 17" widescreen display at 1440 x 900 and 32 colors.
my youtube vids: www.youtube.com/bobbyfromnj
I think that the 165.8Bobby_M wrote: I have to say that I have no idea what your step #4 is. The "sparge" step IS an infusion and each batch sparge step has a temperature input. I runoff my mash, then use 180-185F sparge water. The first sparge infusion gets me to 163, second to 169F. This pic here is when you use 180F instead but you get the idea.
BTP v2.0.* Windows XP
There is a trick you can use to see what the temp of the mash + infusion is. Select "None" as your collection vessel and the vessel heat capacity will not affect the final temperature value. This should give a rough indication of the temperature of the mash after the infusion.slothrob wrote:Jeff can correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think the program currently calculated what the temperature of the grist+sparge infusion will be. I always thought it did, but I believe I was wrong.
Jeff
BeerTools.com Staff
BeerTools.com Staff
Hey, you know that WAS my assumption all along too (that the final temp indicated was the grist including the new infusion). Now I SORT OF understand why you might want to know the temp in the collection vessel but isn't the grist after infusion the more important figure? I don't mind using collection vessel none as a workaround. However, does collection vessel = none mean that the batch sparge will not assume a full drain? Isn't it a pardox?
No, I've never gone over 168 with 180F infusions as I've measured it over and over to make sure.
No, I've never gone over 168 with 180F infusions as I've measured it over and over to make sure.
Bobby_M on Homebrewtalk.com
HP DV9200 Laptop, Intel T5500, 2 Gig RAM, Windows Vista, 17" widescreen display at 1440 x 900 and 32 colors.
my youtube vids: www.youtube.com/bobbyfromnj
HP DV9200 Laptop, Intel T5500, 2 Gig RAM, Windows Vista, 17" widescreen display at 1440 x 900 and 32 colors.
my youtube vids: www.youtube.com/bobbyfromnj
I only recommend switching to "none" temporarily to see the figure. Just a quick informal way to get a little extra info.Bobby_M wrote:I don't mind using collection vessel none as a workaround. However, does collection vessel = none mean that the batch sparge will not assume a full drain? Isn't it a pardox?.
The reason the final temp reflects the temperature in the collection vessel is because this is the starting point for heating the wort to boiling temp. When the boil, steep and add extract steps are implemented, the whole brewing process can be mapped in the schedule.
Jeff
BeerTools.com Staff
BeerTools.com Staff
Thanks for that trick, Jeff! That's helpful.jeff wrote: There is a trick you can use to see what the temp of the mash + infusion is. Select "None" as your collection vessel and the vessel heat capacity will not affect the final temperature value. This should give a rough indication of the temperature of the mash after the infusion.
BTP v2.0.* Windows XP
Jeff,
That's the usage I expected out of the collection vessel temp but wouldn't you agree that resultant grist temp upon a new infusion is more important than calculating heating times in the schedule? Even if it's not more important, I think batch spargers would find it more important than "a little extra info".
For me, it's the difference between a nice efficient sparge and pulling tannins. I like to walk the fine line in between and feel like the 168F infusions that fly spargers use should not be a defacto carryover for batch spargers.
I would love it if you'd consider figuring out a way to display resultant grist temp upon infusions in the batch sparge window without having to work around.
That's the usage I expected out of the collection vessel temp but wouldn't you agree that resultant grist temp upon a new infusion is more important than calculating heating times in the schedule? Even if it's not more important, I think batch spargers would find it more important than "a little extra info".
For me, it's the difference between a nice efficient sparge and pulling tannins. I like to walk the fine line in between and feel like the 168F infusions that fly spargers use should not be a defacto carryover for batch spargers.
I would love it if you'd consider figuring out a way to display resultant grist temp upon infusions in the batch sparge window without having to work around.
Bobby_M on Homebrewtalk.com
HP DV9200 Laptop, Intel T5500, 2 Gig RAM, Windows Vista, 17" widescreen display at 1440 x 900 and 32 colors.
my youtube vids: www.youtube.com/bobbyfromnj
HP DV9200 Laptop, Intel T5500, 2 Gig RAM, Windows Vista, 17" widescreen display at 1440 x 900 and 32 colors.
my youtube vids: www.youtube.com/bobbyfromnj