Final volume and trub loss

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Final volume and trub loss

Postby djavet » Sun Sep 16, 2007 3:56 pm

Hello

Why the turb loss ist not counted in final volume?
Must be more near the realty no?

Dom
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Re: Final volume and trub loss

Postby camelfilter » Thu Sep 27, 2007 11:37 pm

djavet wrote:Hello

Why the turb loss ist not counted in final volume?
Must be more near the realty no?

Dom


You are right, it should be counted but doesn't seem to be in my calculations either. I worked around this problem by accounting for all my 'losses' within the Volume Adjustments dialogue. I'm sure that someone will say I'm wrong in this, but it does seem to work and is factored into the final volume which is what I'm after. To follow is an image of the Volume Adjustments screen after I've input a standard 5-gallon recipe. As you can see I'm fairly liberal with the losses I'll get out of my system, but it's better to end up with too much beer than not enough (see below):
Image
As you can see, I'll only get 3.24 gallons out of the recipe as is, but my next task is to scale up the recipe to hit 5-gallons NET volume. check out my post: http://www.beertools.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4415 for a complete break down on scaling up a recipe.
Hope this helps!

Ryan
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More re 'Final Volume'

Postby billvelek » Fri Sep 28, 2007 9:41 am

As I understand it, "Final Volume" is not the volume that goes into your fermenter nor into your kegs/bottles; it is the final volume in your kettle at the end of the boil, assuming that you've allowed it to cool down to 68F. I also don't think that "Final Volume" is supposed to take into account losses from hops, break material, trub, system losses, or anything else. I think that to do otherwise is going to throw off the recipe analysis.

If you are concerned about calculating the exact volume for your fermenter, I think you just need to know what your system losses are and then "scale" your recipe to raise the Final Volume by that amount. Or maybe you can include those losses in the "Deadspace" field for your vessels. Personally, I have a target volume of 5 gallons and I don't worry about how much I'll lose to break material and hops in the kettle, since I want to allow a little bit of room for krauesening in my carboy.

Losses re fermentation and bottling are accounted for using the 'Volume Adjustments' display.

Cheers.

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Re: More re 'Final Volume'

Postby camelfilter » Fri Sep 28, 2007 9:56 am

billvelek wrote:As I understand it, "Final Volume" is not the volume that goes into your fermenter nor into your kegs/bottles; it is the final volume in your kettle at the end of the boil, assuming that you've allowed it to cool down to 68F. I also don't think that "Final Volume" is supposed to take into account losses from hops, break material, trub, system losses, or anything else. I think that to do otherwise is going to throw off the recipe analysis.

If you are concerned about calculating the exact volume for your fermenter, I think you just need to know what your system losses are and then "scale" your recipe to raise the Final Volume by that amount. Or maybe you can include those losses in the "Deadspace" field for your vessels. Personally, I have a target volume of 5 gallons and I don't worry about how much I'll lose to break material and hops in the kettle, since I want to allow a little bit of room for krauesening in my carboy.

Losses re fermentation and bottling are accounted for using the 'Volume Adjustments' display.

Cheers.

Bill Velek


I just wanted to try and keep 'everything' in one basket, so to speak - give BeerTools ALL of the data from my system's losses in order to account for them in the formulation of my brews so I don't have to think about them. Yeah, I definately scale my recipe's up to account for the losses. As you mention, "Deadspace". Yeah, to keep it accurate for my system, I've tried to 'build-in' as many of the losses I'll see along the path to finally tapping the keg i.e. trub loss, racking loss, fermenter loss,...etc. The values shown in the pic I inserted are a little off individually, but add up to be pretty close to what I get into my keg. My last couple batches stopped perfectly at 5 gallons in my keg when I racked from the fermenter, so I've never bothered to correct them individually.

Ryan
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racking loss

Postby warthog » Fri Sep 28, 2007 10:13 am

i just use a volume adjustment called "racking loss". since i use a conical, i 'rack' by dumping 1/2 gallon out the bottom, and call the rest of the fermentation secondary. then when it's time to keg, i go off the racking port and lose another 1/2 gallon. i apply it once for beer that only has a primary fermentation, and twice for beers with a secondary. since i want 6 gallons in to the fermenter, i set my final volume to 6.0 gallons and lock it. if i am using a 5 gallon recipe, i decide whether i want to live with 4 gallons in the keg, or scale it to 6 gallons (which for me means 6.75 into the kettle - for a 60 min boil) using a conical in this case makes accounting for losses easier, since i'm pretty much forced to lose 1/2 gallon every time i rack. i really have no other losses.
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Final Volume vs. Net Volume

Postby slothrob » Fri Sep 28, 2007 4:26 pm

It's important that Final Volume and Net Volume be treated differently for two main reasons:

Recipe formulation: You need to design your recipe based on the amount of beer in the kettle, not that makes it to the fermentor, or your gravity and IBU calculations will be wrong.

Volume at end of boil: You need to know the Final Volume in the boil kettle so that you know when the boil is completed. In some recipes you may boil until the Final Volume (+4%) is reached. In most, you want to check your evaporation rate early in the boil, to determine that you will hit your target volume in the predicted time, before adding the flavor and aroma hops.

This latter calculation can be very important for those of us who live in areas where the temperature and humidity vary significantly through the year. For some of us, evaporation rates can fluctuate wildly.
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