Help changing gravity.

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Help changing gravity.

Postby Sweet Papa » Sat Feb 10, 2007 12:00 pm

First let me say to the developers that I really appreciate the fact this is available for Macs and PCs. As a database person that works in both, my preference is to the Mac and this is a nice piece of software.

My problem is in changing my original gravity. The first 5 sessions I recorded were from previous boils. Now I put in the first batch while owning the software. Before I changed the OG and FG easily. However, with this session it will not allow me to change the original gravity. It has the expected gravity as 1.049 and the actual is 1.046. When I change it, it instantly reverts to 1.049 when I change fields. What am I doing wrong?
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Re: Help changing gravity.

Postby jeff » Sat Feb 10, 2007 12:19 pm

Sweet Papa wrote:First let me say to the developers that I really appreciate the fact this is available for Macs and PCs. As a database person that works in both, my preference is to the Mac and this is a nice piece of software.


Thanks! I'm glad you are enjoying it.

Sweet Papa wrote:My problem is in changing my original gravity. The first 5 sessions I recorded were from previous boils. Now I put in the first batch while owning the software. Before I changed the OG and FG easily. However, with this session it will not allow me to change the original gravity. It has the expected gravity as 1.049 and the actual is 1.046. When I change it, it instantly reverts to 1.049 when I change fields. What am I doing wrong?


You aren't doing anything wrong. BTP adjusts the efficiency value when the OG reading is entered. If there are no efficiency dependent ingredients in the recipe, adjusting the efficiency has no effect. Likely the recipe you are trying to enter the OG for is an extract recipe.

Probably the easiest way to hit your OG with the recipe is to increase your final volume until the OG is 1.046. Another way is to edit the actual settings for your extracts. Double clicking on the extract ingredient in the list will bring up the editor. Changing the potential extract value to 93% of what it currently is might get you in the ballpark.
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Postby Sweet Papa » Sun Feb 11, 2007 7:34 pm

Will this change the value of my extract forever or just for this recipe.
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Extract

Postby jeff » Sun Feb 11, 2007 7:36 pm

Sweet Papa wrote:Will this change the value of my extract forever or just for this recipe.


Each recipe uses independent copies of ingredients. Changes made to the extract in the recipe will leave the DB untouched.
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I really do like that feature

Postby billvelek » Sun Feb 11, 2007 8:32 pm

Jeff, I think it's great that changes to such things do not change the main database. That was some great foresight on your behalf. Thanks.

Cheers.

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Postby just-cj » Mon Feb 12, 2007 11:59 pm

It's a good feature until you find a mistake in the database or you want to change it for your specific batch of a certain malt. For example, I pointed out that Weyermann Carahell should be 10L, but there's a mistake in the database. I can't change that, instead I have to wait for (and keep bothering) Jeff and Lathe about it. :( Likewise, if I get a sack of malt that has different protein levels or color or extact potential, I have to change it each time I want to use that malt. Or am I missing something here?
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Postby slothrob » Tue Feb 13, 2007 10:12 am

Does this make a permanant change in a Template?
Because then you could make the change in the Template and use that Template until the next bag comes in.
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Postby billvelek » Tue Feb 13, 2007 2:11 pm

just-cj wrote:It's a good feature until you find a mistake in the database or you want to change it for your specific batch of a certain malt. ... snip ... I have to change it each time I want to use that malt. Or am I missing something here?
It works for me; that is, I can make a change to the database, close BTP, reopen BTP, and the change is there. Instead of highlighting an ingredient on your recipe list and then using the edit button -- which makes changes for just that recipe -- go instead to the menu bar command for database and select the type of ingredient, edit it, and then it should make a permanent change. When I just tried this, I also made a minor change in my recipe so that I could save it, since there is not another save command that would appear to be available -- no 'save' database changes, for instance. I closed and restarted BTP, and the changes that I had made to the grain database -- where I changed the 'description field', the 'DBFG' field (which automatically changed the 'Potential Extract' field), and the 'HCU' field for color -- were exactly what I had changed them to.

Okay, I just changed them back to their original settings, and exited BTP without using any save command. When I restarted BTP, the changes were made, so it isn't necessary to use any save command.

Hope that helps.

EDIT: Note to slothrob -- I don't know how it affects templates; I'm still not that much on top of that part of the program.

Cheers.

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Postby just-cj » Tue Feb 13, 2007 7:56 pm

Okay, I think what's been happening is that when I make a change or add something to the database, it just gets deleted when I update the program and copy over the new files. Duh. But, that brings up another question -- if I input a bunch of changes in my database file and then there's a new version of BTP, what do I do? I want the "latest and greatest" version of all files, but I don't want to lose the data that I so carefully input. I guess eventually that won't be a problem since as BTP becomes more complete and more stable, there will be fewer and fewer updates. But right now in v20, Weyermann Carahell is back to 65L instead of the 10L that I changed it to (just to give one example).

Sorry if it seems like I'm being petty here, but to me an accurate database (accurate to my specific situation as well as in general) is one of the main reasons I bought BTP.
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That's not petty ...

Postby billvelek » Tue Feb 13, 2007 8:04 pm

Spending our valuable time making changes that we want to keep, and then having them wiped out by an update is not petty. I have asked Jeff and Lathe about that before, but I don't recall that I ever received a reply. In fact, there are a LOT of things that I have asked and never received a reply, but I just chalk that up to them being very busy. Still, ... it is very frustrating to not at least receive a simple acknowledgment -- and I've asked/suggested at least that much too, but have been ignored on that point, too. I guess I ask too many questions, or else they get buried by subsequent posts by other users and Jeff and Lathe never see them. I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt.

Cheers.

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Re: That's not petty ...

Postby just-cj » Tue Feb 13, 2007 8:32 pm

billvelek wrote:I guess I ask too many questions...
Really, Bill? I hadn't noticed. :wink: :mrgreen:

Seriously, I know how you feel. There are a lot of things that have come up here that seem to have fallen between the cracks. Sometimes I feel like I/we/all of us should post a reminder or two, but I also don't want to be an asshole about getting things fixed. I guess patience isn't one of my strong points. :oops:
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Database updates

Postby jeff » Tue Feb 13, 2007 10:10 pm

just-cj wrote:Okay, I think what's been happening is that when I make a change or add something to the database, it just gets deleted when I update the program and copy over the new files. Duh. But, that brings up another question -- if I input a bunch of changes in my database file and then there's a new version of BTP, what do I do? I want the "latest and greatest" version of all files, but I don't want to lose the data that I so carefully input. I guess eventually that won't be a problem since as BTP becomes more complete and more stable, there will be fewer and fewer updates. But right now in v20, Weyermann Carahell is back to 65L instead of the 10L that I changed it to (just to give one example).


That should not have happened, so I need your help to find out why. I understand that you are using the Mac so I will approach the problem from that context.

When a new version of BTP is installed, it carries with it a new master DB. Assuming that you installed BTP in your /Macintosh HD/Applications folder, the location of the DB file should be /Macintosh HD/Applications/BeerTools Pro/Data.rsd. BTP only uses this DB file once; any changes you make to the database are made to another file.

When BTP starts up, it looks for a file located at /Macintosh HD/Users/<username>/Library/Application Support/BeerTools Pro/Data.rsd. If it does not find this file, it copies the master DB file to this location. If BTP does find the file, it compares the version numbers of the master and local files. If the numbers differ, then BTP does an update to the database records based on the modified dates of each record. This way, the newest copy of each record is used whether changed by us or by you.

Granted, using this method may cause some user data to be overwritten, this should not have happened in your case. We have not made any changes to the DB from 1.0.19 to 1.0.20, so BTP should not have proceeded with a data update.

One possibility is that BTP cannot create the file /Macintosh HD/Users/<username>/Library/Application Support/BeerTools Pro/Data.rsd. This can be verified quickly enough by checking that location for the file. If the file is there, perhaps make a trivial change the the DB and check to see if the modified date on the file changes. If things seem to checkout ok, then there may be a bug of some sort that needs to be addressed.

Any other information you can provide is appreciated, sorry some of your data was wiped out.
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Re: Database updates

Postby just-cj » Tue Feb 13, 2007 11:29 pm

jeff wrote:When a new version of BTP is installed, it carries with it a new master DB. Assuming that you installed BTP in your /Macintosh HD/Applications folder, the location of the DB file should be /Macintosh HD/Applications/BeerTools Pro/Data.rsd. BTP only uses this DB file once; any changes you make to the database are made to another file.
Okay, that's where my BTP is installed, and the Data.rsd file is there.
When BTP starts up, it looks for a file located at /Macintosh HD/Users/<username>/Library/Application Support/BeerTools Pro/Data.rsd. If it does not find this file, it copies the master DB file to this location. If BTP does find the file, it compares the version numbers of the master and local files. If the numbers differ, then BTP does an update to the database records based on the modified dates of each record. This way, the newest copy of each record is used whether changed by us or by you.
Okay, I confirmed that that file is also where it should be -- I didn't know it existed, so I haven't ever done anything to it (such as delete it). What you describe is exactly how I would hope it would work.
Granted, using this method may cause some user data to be overwritten, this should not have happened in your case. We have not made any changes to the DB from 1.0.19 to 1.0.20, so BTP should not have proceeded with a data update.
I made the changes back a few versions ago -- December sometime, as far as I remember. I just checked, and I posted about Weyermann carahell and Simpsons Golden Naked Oats on Dec 29, using v 18. It was at that time that I added those two to the database (and made a couple other changes in my hops), but both are gone now.
One possibility is that BTP cannot create the file /Macintosh HD/Users/<username>/Library/Application Support/BeerTools Pro/Data.rsd. This can be verified quickly enough by checking that location for the file. If the file is there, perhaps make a trivial change the the DB and check to see if the modified date on the file changes. If things seem to checkout ok, then there may be a bug of some sort that needs to be addressed.
It's there, like I said above, with a Jan 10 date on it. That was probably when I installed the pre-release v19.
Any other information you can provide is appreciated, sorry some of your data was wiped out.
Well, I'm currently using v20 on a MacBook Pro 17", 2.16 GHz Intel Core Duo, 1 GB memory, OS 10.4.8. I haven't done any maintenance other than running my weekly virus check and monthly Disk Permissions Repair. I really didn't lose all that much data -- mostly I'm still in testing mode when I use BTP -- so it's not a huge deal.

And maybe I'm inputting changes wrong? What I've been doing is choosing Ingredients/Browse/Grains; find the grain I want to edit and click on Edit; input the changes; close the ingredient browser. I just did that again and then quit BTP. When I reopened, the correction of Weyermann Carahell was still there (65.0L to 10.0L), and the Data.rsd in my Applications Support folder shows that it was modified today. So everything's as it should be. Now I'll see what happens after the next update. 8)
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Re: That's not petty ...

Postby Brant » Wed Feb 14, 2007 9:22 am

billvelek wrote:... it is very frustrating to not at least receive a simple acknowledgment

just-cj wrote:There are a lot of things that have come up here that seem to have fallen between the cracks. Sometimes I feel like I/we/all of us should post a reminder or two, but I also don't want to be an asshole about getting things fixed.

I have felt the same way a few times, only because I thought that I wasn't making myself clear, or that I was using the software incorrectly. But even without acknowledgments, Jeff is obviously listening. Case in point is the decoction bug fix in the latest release. Still, a quick comment saying "I understand your problem and we are planning to address it in a future release" would have built my confidence earlier.
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