Volumes in Schedule

General discussion on BeerTools Pro Software.

Volumes in Schedule

Postby bzwrxbz » Thu Nov 30, 2006 10:57 am

There is a lack of clarity on my part as to the volumes I need to look at within the schedule part of the program.

I am a batch sparger, so I am primarily concerned about runnable volume in my mash tun. There are two volumes displayed on the overall schedule, "water added", and "final volume".

On the graph portion, when i switch the drop box to volume graph, I believe it is showing me the final volume (which includes grains, if i conclude correctly). If it does include grains space, then there are probably some bugs or inadequecies when doing the separation step, for the total volume can drop to zero, even though the grains are still present.

I guess the question is, is there a way to look at the volume of runnable water (my definition of this is "original water input volume - water absorbed by grains") at each step, in addition to the final volume and total amount of water put in? Maybe this can be programmed in to the list display, as well as a new dropdown for the graph?

I hope this is clear. I still seem to have to resort to going to Excel to do my volume calculations on the batch sparge, and I obviously i should not need to do this. Perhaps I am doing something wrong. I have read the previous thread topics on batch sparging, but it seems i have to do the mathematics outside of BTP, and then enter in the numbers into BTP for the sparge steps.

Comments on Rel14.

thx!
User avatar
bzwrxbz
Double IPA
Double IPA
 
Posts: 126
Joined: Sat Nov 04, 2006 8:04 am
Location: The Cold North

Re: Volumes in Schedule

Postby jeff » Thu Nov 30, 2006 11:18 am

I have a note on my list to work on the "Final Volume" column in the schedule list. As it stands, this column reports the actual volume of mash/wort in the current vessel. It goes to zero for the separation step because it is reporting your actual runoff which begins at zero obviously; not available runoff. This column may need to become two columns: one to report vessel volume and one to report available runoff. I am pretty certain the calculations are accurate; the method of reporting the results just seems to be a little confusing.
Jeff
BeerTools.com Staff
User avatar
jeff
Imperial Stout
Imperial Stout
 
Posts: 1388
Joined: Sun Jan 09, 2000 9:16 pm
Location: Hollywood, SC

Postby slothrob » Thu Nov 30, 2006 12:17 pm

I find the calculations to be correct for my system, with Jeff's caveat that the Final Volume registers mash volume prior to runoff, and collected runoff once Separation begins. I agree that this isn't very intuitive.

There is no need to resort to Excel, however. I think the numbers bzwrxbz is looking for are first runnings and total collected. The collected volume is displayed in the main Schedule screen (once a Separation step is entered) and in the Edit window for the Separation step. As of now, the first running volume is displayed only in the Edit window for the Separation step.

One thing I preferred about the old Collection step was that you could set one for first runnings (with 0 added volume post-mashout) and one for the sparge and it would display first running volume and total volume post-sparge in the main Schedule window. I think the new single window is more intuitive, however, and it's nice to be able to do all the sparge volume editing within a single window instead of having to open and close multiple windows.

I know that this feature is still developing, so I'm kind of standing back on this issue until Jeff has a chance to catch up a bit.
BTP v2.0.* Windows XP
User avatar
slothrob
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 1758
Joined: Mon Apr 10, 2006 1:36 pm
Location: Greater Boston

In the graph

Postby bzwrxbz » Thu Nov 30, 2006 12:52 pm

OK, I am starting to see a little bit of what is going on.

The schedule graph for volume is mixing containers. On the separation step, it is showing the Kettle volume, while on the previous steps it is showing the mashtun volume (grain and all).

The reason I say i still use excel a little, is because when i do a scaling, the Separation steps seem not to scale correctly (as far as batch sparging would be concerned). But, I am probably just a little dumb and need to look into it further. Or?

I know that batch sparging part of BTP is a work in progress, I am just pushing some comments/questions out into the open.

(Comments on Rel14)

Ok, thx!
User avatar
bzwrxbz
Double IPA
Double IPA
 
Posts: 126
Joined: Sat Nov 04, 2006 8:04 am
Location: The Cold North

Postby slothrob » Thu Nov 30, 2006 1:33 pm

I haven't worked with scaling much. I'll try to check it out.
BTP v2.0.* Windows XP
User avatar
slothrob
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 1758
Joined: Mon Apr 10, 2006 1:36 pm
Location: Greater Boston

Re: Volumes in Schedule

Postby jeff » Sun Dec 10, 2006 10:25 pm

bzwrxbz wrote:I guess the question is, is there a way to look at the volume of runnable water (my definition of this is "original water input volume - water absorbed by grains") at each step, in addition to the final volume and total amount of water put in? Maybe this can be programmed in to the list display, as well as a new dropdown for the graph?


Two new columns have been added to the schedule list in 1.0.16: Available and Collected. "Available" refers to the runoff available to be collected at any point in the process, and "Collected" refers to runoff already collected. "In Vessel" is the "Final Volume" column renamed. It refers to the total volume in the current vessel.
Jeff
BeerTools.com Staff
User avatar
jeff
Imperial Stout
Imperial Stout
 
Posts: 1388
Joined: Sun Jan 09, 2000 9:16 pm
Location: Hollywood, SC

Postby Brant » Thu Dec 28, 2006 1:06 pm

Having just re-read this thread, I now understand why the Schedule Graph's In Vessel Volume immediately drops to zero at the start of my fly sparge Collection step, and then slowly climbs to my Runoff amount across the "sparge duration" time. It is because the "vessel" has just changed from my mash/lauter tun to my kettle! I guess that makes sense, though for the graphical representation, it is kind of odd looking. Maybe some sort of label at each step in in the graph to identify which vessel it represents would help.

However, for the Available Volume Graph, shouldn't the vessel still be the mash/lauter tun, rather than the kettle? The way the Available Volume Graph appears to be currently working is that it immediately drops to zero at the start of the Collection, and then climbs to the Residual volume across the duration of the fly sparge, similar to how the In Vessel Volume Graph works for the kettle. Instead, shouldn't it start at the available volume from the step before the Collection, and then slope down to the Residual amount, to represent what is happening in the mash/lauter tun? And actually, for a fly sparge, shouldn't it stay at a constant volume for most of the sparge duration, and slope down to the residual amount only near the end of the time? I think that would be impossible to algorithmically calculate without adding a sparge rate field to the Collection step -- and I mean one in volume per time, such as cups per minute, rather than the volume per mass of grain that is currently there, which isn't too useful for us fly spargers. It would need to be tied to the sparge duration field, too, and it would help us fly spargers tweak our flow rates to know how much we should be pulling every X minutes (I do that calculation in my head currently; it would be nice if the program would do it for me, though).

Okay, sorry for reawakening this thread with several different topics, but I think they are all related. If I am missing the point about any of it, please help me understand. Thanks!
Brant
Pale Ale
Pale Ale
 
Posts: 51
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2006 8:43 pm


Return to BeerTools Pro General Topics

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest