Does this make sense?

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Does this make sense?

Postby Beer Snob » Tue Oct 31, 2006 11:26 pm

Trying to figure out if the batch sparge number make sense. I have an IPA recpe I am thinking of using this Saturday that uses 12.15 pounds of grain. At 1 quart/pound I'm adding 3,04 gallons to the mash in. 3.64 gallons in the mash out. My first runnings are 6.7 gallons. Boil is about 6.2 gallons so it sounds like I dont need to do a second running.

But like I said... not sure if it makes sense. What do you all think?
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Grvity

Postby Beer Snob » Wed Nov 01, 2006 8:15 am

Forgot to mention, gravity has been said to be 1.061
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Postby slothrob » Wed Nov 01, 2006 12:10 pm

You didn't account for absorption by the grain (typically about 0.125 gal/#.)
With 12.15# of grain, you'll lose about 1.52 gal from your mashin, giving you about 5.2 gal from your first runnings.

Also, if you don't sparge, you will get a low efficiency, as much of the sugar will be rinsed out during the sparge, maybe as much as 1/3. This could mean an efficiency of 50% instead of 75%, leading to a lowere than expected gravity after your boil.

I would up your Mash In ratio a bit (I usually shoot for about 1.25 unless the volume of grain + liquid is too much for my tun to hold or if the volumes don't work out at the end), Mashout with only as much boiling water (consider this about 200
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Postby Beer Snob » Thu Nov 02, 2006 8:08 pm

How do you account for grain absorption in Beer Tools?
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Postby kieran » Thu Nov 02, 2006 8:30 pm

I had similar troubles, a little tutorial on setting up an AG brew with fly/batch sparging and all variations would be great. Just to point out "if you want to do this, then click this and add the amount here". While most of it is great and easy to understand, some of the things aren't immediately intuitive. Setting up the schedule and volumes were one area that wasn't immediately intuitive.
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Postby jeff » Thu Nov 02, 2006 8:34 pm

Beer Snob wrote:How do you account for grain absorption in Beer Tools?


Grain absorption is factored in for you. The amount in 'Residual Volume' reflects runoff that is available for collecting, meaning the remaining liquid not absorbed by the grain.
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Proposed Changes

Postby jeff » Thu Nov 02, 2006 8:39 pm

I have been thinking about some changes that I want to mention here. I plan on removing the 'Collect' step and replacing it with two steps called 'Fly Sparge' and 'Batch Sparge'. Based on feedback it seems that one 'Collect' step is not sufficient for setting up these different methods for collecting runoff. I am still debating how the Batch Sparge step will operate. I like the concept of a series of steps combined to outline this process because it lends to flexibility. However, I may wrap all the phases of a batch sparge into one composite step.
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Postby kieran » Thu Nov 02, 2006 11:31 pm

The batch sparge technique we used last weekend went like this:

Of the volume in the mash ton Z, Collect approx 1 litre of inital 'dirty' runoff from mash tun, then the rest goes into the kettle and initial dirty runoff is put back to mash - now with grain bed settled, to filter the crap out of it - which is collected in the kettle.

Then add X/2 litres of water at Y temperature at once, mix and stir, wait to settle a bit.. collect approx 1 litre of inital 'dirty' runoff from mash tun, then the rest goes into the kettle, add the initial dirty runoff back to mash and collect.

Then add X/2 litres of water at Y temperature at once, mix and stir, wait to settle a bit.. collect approx 1 litre of inital 'dirty' runoff from mash tun, then the rest goes into the kettle, add the initial dirty runoff back to mash and collect.

Z+X - grain-witheld-volume = initial kettle volume

So, I'm not sure the best way to work a batch sparge option in BTP.. but it could probably be rolled into a simple single 'batch sparge' processor, where you put first and second sparge stage (I'm not sure if many people do any more). Although it would be more flexible if there were separate parts to it, like you say Jeff. It would allow people who do more sparges to have them.
We got an awesome efficiency using this method. Our mash tun holds the temperature really well.

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Postby jawbox » Fri Nov 03, 2006 12:21 am

jeff,

would it be possible to set parameters for the batch sparge ie # of sparges, use of top up volume before first runnings so you get two equal sparges? maybe this would make more sense Recipe
This an old recipe from beersmith before it could handle batch sparges.

I've also emailed you with my work around in btp.

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Postby slothrob » Fri Nov 03, 2006 2:00 pm

Beer Snob wrote:How do you account for grain absorption in Beer Tools?


If you are in the Schedule part of the program (as opposed to the strike calculator from the menu bar), you highlight the MashIn step, hit Edit (or double click), and a popup window appears in which you can edit the grain absorbtion.

I also would like the option to automatically equalize the volumes from the runnings. Ideally this would (when selected) automatically adjust the Mashout volume (within the limits of my mash tun) or Batch Sparge volume or warn me if I wasn't going to hit my Boil volume without adding a second Sparge.

I think the option of a dedicated batch sparge step would make the scheduler more intuitive for a lot of people. I also need to start telling people, who don't want the complexity of setting up a schedule, about the Strike Temperature calculator in the menu bar.
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Postby andrewqld » Fri Nov 03, 2006 6:49 pm

slothrob wrote:
Beer Snob wrote:How do you account for grain absorption in Beer Tools?


If you are in the Schedule part of the program (as opposed to the strike calculator from the menu bar), you highlight the MashIn step, hit Edit (or double click), and a popup window appears in which you can edit the grain absorbtion.


I can't find a grain absorbtion field, your not refering to the "infusion rate" are you? Because that does not adjust the "grain absorbtion" rate.

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Grain Absorption

Postby jeff » Fri Nov 03, 2006 7:02 pm

andrewqld wrote:I can't find a grain absorbtion field, your not refering to the "infusion rate" are you? Because that does not adjust the "grain absorbtion" rate.


Grain absorption is set at 1.0 l/kg. This is about 0.48 qt/lb.
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Re: Grain Absorption

Postby andrewqld » Fri Nov 03, 2006 7:06 pm

jeff wrote:
andrewqld wrote:I can't find a grain absorbtion field, your not refering to the "infusion rate" are you? Because that does not adjust the "grain absorbtion" rate.


Grain absorption is set at 1.0 l/kg. This is about 0.48 qt/lb.


So this is not adjustable Jeff? I would like to be able to set it at 1.1l/kg if that's possible as this is the amount I have always used and seems to suite my volume into fermenter better.
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Postby jawbox » Fri Nov 03, 2006 8:12 pm

i agree with andrew. I'd like to see this be adjustable.
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Postby slothrob » Fri Nov 03, 2006 9:02 pm

Sorry, I was thinking of the Infusion Rate.
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