"This means that you have access to over 5,400 recipes.

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"This means that you have access to over 5,400 recipes.

Postby rbarr110 » Mon Oct 30, 2006 7:26 pm

Was curious as to how I access the following:

"This means that you have access to over 5,400 recipes right away."

I haven't been able to get anything online except for what would be "My Recipes", and I certainly don't have 5400 recipes.

Thanks

(Edit: Is it just via the website recipes, or can they be imported through the software?)
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Postby rbarr110 » Mon Oct 30, 2006 7:52 pm

jeff wrote:
DrunkenCow wrote:How do I go about downloading recipes from your site to my Beertools software?


Before you download recipes you will have to add some to your account. You can do this by saving library recipes in your favorites list using the link at the top of each recipe page; or you can save your personal recipes to your personal recipe slots using the Calculator or Generator on the site. If you are a GOLD member you have 100 personal slots; trial members have 1. You can also save your personal recipes to the recipe library for others to see. You can save unlimited recipes this way.

To easily manage your recipes you should visit My BeerTools.

Once you have some recipes in My BeerTools, you can use BeerTools Pro to access them. Choose Online->My Recipes. Login using your username and password and BeerTools Pro will list all of your recipes. You can download your recipes by double-clicking on the recipe or clicking "Load".

GOLD members can download their personal recipes without any limit and 50 library recipes each month. Trial members can download 5 recipes each month.


Above taken from another section in the forums.....

But stating you have access via the software to 5400+ recipes is a gross misrepresentation of what you actually get. Hell I can access the 5400+ without the software, I would assume the statement meant I could access all with the software, not 5 or 50 at a time.
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Postby jeff » Mon Oct 30, 2006 9:06 pm

rbarr110 wrote:Hell I can access the 5400+ without the software


If you are satisfied with accessing the recipes using the BeerTools.com site, then you don't need BeerTools Pro.

rbarr110 wrote:I would assume the statement meant I could access all with the software, not 5 or 50 at a time.


Regarding accessing 5400+ recipes, you can put any recipe on BeerTools.com in your favorites list. The favorites list shows up in the BeerTools Pro My Recipes list. You can easily add and remove recipes from your favorites. Thus you have access to all the recipes on the site. However, GOLD users are allowed to download 50 of them each month. Do you need to download more than 50 recipes a month?
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Postby rbarr110 » Mon Oct 30, 2006 10:18 pm

jeff wrote:
Regarding accessing 5400+ recipes, you can put any recipe on BeerTools.com in your favorites list. The favorites list shows up in the BeerTools Pro My Recipes list. You can easily add and remove recipes from your favorites. Thus you have access to all the recipes on the site. However, GOLD users are allowed to download 50 of them each month. Do you need to download more than 50 recipes a month?


No, I don't need to download more than 50 a month. But your statement regarding the recipes and the use of the software is MISLEADING. I was trying to figure out how to access a database of 5400+ recipes through using the software, which isn't the case. The 5400 recipes are completely seperate from the program itself.

"It all comes down to recipes. That's why people buy brewing applications. BeerTools Pro comes with over 5,400 recipes." Technically it doesn't come with any recipes or any real straight forward direct access to any recipes.

It's a rather convoluted way to get access to the recipes. Log in to the website, search for a recipe, save it to a personal directory, start up the program, log in to your online directory, then download the recipe. I personally believe the statement regarding the 5400 recipes is innaccurate, in order for that to be a accurate statement, you should be able to browse the database via the BeerTools program, I spent 40 minutes trying to figure out where these recipes were.

Don't get me wrong, I think the program thus far is great, but annoyed at the misleading representation of the software and part of the reason I bought it.
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Postby jeff » Mon Oct 30, 2006 10:33 pm

rbarr110 wrote:I personally believe the statement regarding the 5400 recipes is innaccurate, in order for that to be a accurate statement, you should be able to browse the database via the BeerTools program, I spent 40 minutes trying to figure out where these recipes were.


Using the Favorites list was the best way we could allow a way to download recipes by other authors until you can actually run recipe searches within BeerTools Pro. Recipe searching within BeerTools Pro will be fast and powerful; but we felt that we should not delay the software in favor of making sure all proposed features are included.
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"This means that you have access to over 5,400 recipes.

Postby lathe » Tue Oct 31, 2006 8:27 am

Hey Guys,

Thought I'd chime in here. I think I see your point rbarr110. However, with BeerTools Pro you do have access to over 5,400 recipes. There are no other brewing applications on planet earth that can access the internet, log onto the worlds largest beer recipe database, and then load those recipes into the application.

When you read the article you may have been thinking that the 5,400 recipes are "pre-installed". We didn't say this though. I didn't even occur to us. Online storage of recipes is a better way for our GOLD members to keep their recipes mobile. They can work on their recipes when at any internet enabled computer. They can add other recipes to their favorites...etc.

All of this being said...recipe searching within BeerTools Pro is on the development list. It will be fantastic.

Thanks for the feedback!
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Postby ssprecher » Wed Nov 01, 2006 10:20 pm

I bought BTP last week and didn't realize that having the gold membership was needed in order to download more then 5 recipes per month. Is there a way I can still get the gold membership for the additional 5 dollars?
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GOLD

Postby jeff » Thu Nov 02, 2006 12:14 pm

ssprecher wrote:I bought BTP last week and didn't realize that having the gold membership was needed in order to download more then 5 recipes per month. Is there a way I can still get the gold membership for the additional 5 dollars?


I sent you a private message. Thanks!
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"This means that you have access to over 5,400 recipes.

Postby PeterS » Thu Nov 02, 2006 6:22 pm

I also agree with rbarr110 comments. I purchased the software under the understanding from that statement that I would be able to use the 5400 recipes that is accessible. As a trial member I can only download one recipe a month. The way I understand it, it will take me 450 years to download the lot. Those recipes are posted to the site free by the members. I do not understand why we can not download them and use them with a purchased copy of BeerTools Pro Software. All other software on the market comes with recipes included and can add to your own database as they become available. I am disappointed as without recipes $33.00 Australian the software is way overpriced.
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Postby kieran » Thu Nov 02, 2006 6:51 pm

I agree with rbarr110. I have bought BeerToolsPro with Gold membership, and the way it works right now kind of sucks. It would be great to just browse the entire database from within the application and just grab what you want from within it. You shouldn't have to pick a recipe online, put it in your own list, and then import from that. Sure, that should be an option, but you should be able to access everything.
I was excited about the 5400 recipe thing, but actually browsing them on the page takes forever because there are just too many to rapidly sort. If these were initially downloaded, and cached locally within the software with some sort of hash - such that when new recipes are added, the hash is checked against the online hash, if its different, it updates the necessary recipes.. that would be the optimal solution from the end-user perspective IMO.
Even promash comes with a wad of recipes as standard. Sure, not 5400, but at least its something to get you started.

I love the rest of the programme, if it had unadulterated access to that database, it'd be awesome.
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Re: "This means that you have access to over 5,400 reci

Postby jeff » Thu Nov 02, 2006 7:00 pm

I am sorry to hear that you are disappointed with BeerTools Pro. Please allow me to respond to a few of your thoughts:

PeterS wrote:As a trial member I can only download one recipe a month. The way I understand it, it will take me 450 years to download the lot.


As a trial member you can download 5 recipes per month using BeerTools Pro. In My BeerTools, you can save one personal recipe, unlimited library recipes and 50 favorites. All of these are accessible with BeerTools Pro. To have access to recipes posted by other authors on the site, add these recipes to your favorites so they show up in BeerTools Pro.

PeterS wrote:Those recipes are posted to the site free by the members. I do not understand why we can not download them and use them with a purchased copy of BeerTools Pro Software.


A recipe is never posted to the site for free. For a recipe to exist on the site, I maintain a server with the inevitable hosting fees, database maintenance, server software development, etc. This means that a visitor posts it for free, but I pay to keep it there. Most people will never need more than 5 recipes each month. However if some want to increase their usage of the online features in BTP, I think it is fair to pay the extra $0.42USD per month.

PeterS wrote:All other software on the market comes with recipes included and can add to your own database as they become available. I am disappointed as without recipes $33.00 Australian the software is way overpriced.


Since recipes are saved as files, you are only limited by the space on your hard drive. Your trial membership allows you to download 5 recipes per month, so you can add to your personal library with BTP just like the others. I personally feel that it might not be fair to say that BeerTools Pro comes without recipes.

As for the limits of the trial membership, do you plan on making more than 5 batches a month? If so then maybe my estimates were incorrect in establishing reasonable limits for online access. I am open to your thoughts if you feel these limits are unreasonable.

Thanks for your feedback.
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Postby kieran » Thu Nov 02, 2006 7:03 pm

Let me crystalise what I'm saying, by stating that I think BTP would be better at sorting through the massive list of recipes than the online tool. Furthermore, it would take some load off your webservers.

There is absolutely no way I would ever brew 5400 beers, or even 5 a month, but I just think finding "that recipe" you're after would be more rapid and efficient from within BTP. :)
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Online Access in BeerTools Pro

Postby jeff » Thu Nov 02, 2006 7:17 pm

I have a few expressions I would like to make about online access in BeerTools Pro. I have been reading all of your posts about your dissatisfaction with online access and I think the other side of the story deserves to be heard.

When we started the beta program for BeerTools Pro, online access was a feature scheduled far into the future. We didn't even plan to have it in the first release. Since beta team members expressed such an interest in it, I put the time into developing the basics for online access and it made it into BTP during the beta test period. Everyone loved it!

To have online access, I had to develop a series of server scripts that communicate with BeerTools Pro. This required inventing a new protocol for this relationship between server and app. It seemed logical to keep the first pinnings of online access simple, and linking it with My BeerTools was the best choice at the time.

However, online access is in its infancy. There are powerful search capabilities planned for database access, but this stuff takes time. And granted that BTP online access is already way ahead of schedule (since it actually exists), I think we are doing a pretty good job.

All of you who are dissatisfied with BeerTools Pro, please try to be understanding. It has been out a little over a week and has already received two updates. What other brewing software can boast that kind of service? We pride ourselves on listening to our customers and we have the record to back that up.

We appreciate your honesty, but we also request your patience. BeerTools Pro is going to grow into a wonderful application, and we are happy to have all of you on board in the early stages. Thanks.
Last edited by jeff on Thu Nov 02, 2006 7:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby kieran » Thu Nov 02, 2006 7:27 pm

That's cool Jeff, we're just doing our bit to make it an even better product as well. Thanks for the effort. :D
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Postby PeterS » Thu Nov 02, 2006 9:57 pm

Since recipes are saved as files, you are only limited by the space on your hard drive. Your trial membership allows you to download 5 recipes per month, so you can add to your personal library with BTP just like the others. I personally feel that it might not be fair to say that BeerTools Pro comes without recipes.


Jeff. Please understand that I am only trying to offer constructive criticism and it might be that I just do not understand how to obtain more recipes into my own database on my own hard drive in similar easy way that I can with BeerSmith and Promash and make a choice as to what to brew without going online. I purchased BeerTools Pro because I think you done a good job, based on what you advertised on your site, but I had no recipes that came with the program despite you saying so unless I received a bad copy.. Might be I am missing something, but my purchased BeerTools Pro has no recipes in it at all. Can you tell me where it is as I can not find them. I need to go to your website to see them but can not download more than 5 a month. I f I can only download 5 recipes per month as you said above from the site, it will take me 90 years to download all the recipes. I still do not understand why this is not available for us, after all you advertised that we have access to 5400 recipes. leading me to believe that I can access them without any extra costs, add them to my own data base and make a choice as to what to brew from those. They are useless to me as I have no choice in selecting a recipe from my own data base from my own hard drive. Why am I forced to go on line and pay extra for just to get some recipes. I am not interested in wasting time on web sites, I like to see a Brew Program that has recipes in it. When I buy a cook book it has recipes in it not just how to make something. I like to see value for my money...I say again, I am disappointed how you mislead me to purchase your program. If I had a choice to trial the software before purchase, this would not have happened a I would not have bought it in its present form. Therefore, I am disappointed, but I am patient and Hope that this anomaly will be fixed.
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